Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Liz Taylor coined the phrase King of Pop, not MJ
Liz Taylor coined the phrase King of Pop, not MJ
Who's bigger? MJ or The Beatles?
- Thread starter Trekker4747
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Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
The Beatles minus Ringo Starr were bigger. Of course the whole Beatles were by far bigger. Against Michael Jordan (the real MJ) they were all smaller.
The Beatles minus Ringo Starr were bigger. Of course the whole Beatles were by far bigger. Against Michael Jordan (the real MJ) they were all smaller.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
That I will grant you as well as add to that list artists like Madonna, Britney Spears, N'Sync, The Backstreet Boys, New Kids On The Block, New Edition which sprang Bobby Brown and Bell Biv Devoe, and Jackson's own little sister Janet all to a great degree. MJ was a song and dance man, as are these other artists on that list to a large degree. Very much in the vein of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. I have not said that he had no talent, because that would be wrong. His talent was evident going back to his youth. If the Jackson 5's song ABC were released first in this day and age, it would have been as big a hit today as it was back in the early 1970's. The man could write a catchy tune.
Then again, so can jingle writers for television commercials.
It still doesn't alter my opinion that he peaked with Thriller. In the terms of his songwriting, his dancing, his look, and the expansion of his creative boundaries, that was his high point. And he had spent his remaining years trying to recapture, and yet not expanding upon that period. Whereas the Beatles achieved that same level of success with their first American album, Here's The Beatles, and yet pushed their boundaries further and further with each subsequent album. They kept increasing their level of success creatively and with the masses as well as inspiring dozens, if not hundreds of commercially promoted acts that followed them. And they really only peaked shortly before the group broke up in 1970.
I won't go into the other stuff you touched on because I think race and off-stage activities are secondary and not relevant to the discussion of who was the bigger musical artist. Because if you start bringing in Jackson's alleged antics, of which were man-boyish or legally questionable and he was either never charged or exonerated, then you also have to start bringing in Lennon's leaving his first wife for Yoko Ono, his treatment of his son Julian, as well as the overt drug use by everyone in the Beatles. We are talking about the art here, not the artists.
That I will grant you as well as add to that list artists like Madonna, Britney Spears, N'Sync, The Backstreet Boys, New Kids On The Block, New Edition which sprang Bobby Brown and Bell Biv Devoe, and Jackson's own little sister Janet all to a great degree. MJ was a song and dance man, as are these other artists on that list to a large degree. Very much in the vein of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. I have not said that he had no talent, because that would be wrong. His talent was evident going back to his youth. If the Jackson 5's song ABC were released first in this day and age, it would have been as big a hit today as it was back in the early 1970's. The man could write a catchy tune.
Then again, so can jingle writers for television commercials.
It still doesn't alter my opinion that he peaked with Thriller. In the terms of his songwriting, his dancing, his look, and the expansion of his creative boundaries, that was his high point. And he had spent his remaining years trying to recapture, and yet not expanding upon that period. Whereas the Beatles achieved that same level of success with their first American album, Here's The Beatles, and yet pushed their boundaries further and further with each subsequent album. They kept increasing their level of success creatively and with the masses as well as inspiring dozens, if not hundreds of commercially promoted acts that followed them. And they really only peaked shortly before the group broke up in 1970.
I won't go into the other stuff you touched on because I think race and off-stage activities are secondary and not relevant to the discussion of who was the bigger musical artist. Because if you start bringing in Jackson's alleged antics, of which were man-boyish or legally questionable and he was either never charged or exonerated, then you also have to start bringing in Lennon's leaving his first wife for Yoko Ono, his treatment of his son Julian, as well as the overt drug use by everyone in the Beatles. We are talking about the art here, not the artists.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Teenage girls were not a large percentage of Jackson's fan base? My younger daughters and their friends would beg to differ.
Reading the thread title, I was half expecting the discussion of bugs on pot plants.
Were you alive in the 1980's?
MTV was way successful and established before they ever aired a Michael Jackson music video. In fact, Jackson literally had to fight tooth and nail just to get them to air the videos from Thriller. It was MTV that inspired the Thriller video, not the other way around. True, he did become popular and one of MTV's most played acts after he got them to air his work. But to credit Michael Jackson with the creation of the music video business is complete revisionist history. The Beatles' A Hard Day's Night, Yellow Submarine and Elvis' Comeback Special had more to do with MTV's creation than Jackson ever did.
And yes, the Beatles beats Michael Jackson hands down any day of the week. Jackson peaked with Thriller and everything that followed was merely tweaks on that work and tweaks on those same old dance steps. He never really went out of the creative bounds he established with Thriller as the Beatles did with their later works. Listen to Here's The Beatles and compare it to Sgt. Pepper's or the White Album and you will hear a tremendous amount of musical growth and songwriting prowess. Just because people still bought Jackson's albums in the millions doesn't signify that he was a musical genius. Rather it is more of a statement on the gullibility of his fan base.
Spot on.
His fan base was made up of naive children who didn't know any better. My two youngest daughters were among them, they grew out of it.
What's with these venomous personal attacks on MJ fans? Don't you think this is out of line and just a little uncalled for?
Teenage girls were not a large percentage of Jackson's fan base? My younger daughters and their friends would beg to differ.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
That said im sure Micheal Jackson had fans other than teenage girls, I think his music goes beyond that narrow easy to please demographic
but isnt it ALWAYS teenage girls? most of the big pop acts have been big with teenage girls, name any boybanad in the history of Pop music, and they were big with teenage girls.Spot on.
His fan base was made up of naive children who didn't know any better. My two youngest daughters were among them, they grew out of it.
What's with these venomous personal attacks on MJ fans? Don't you think this is out of line and just a little uncalled for?
Teenage girls were not a large percentage of Jackson's fan base? My younger daughters and their friends would beg to differ.
That said im sure Micheal Jackson had fans other than teenage girls, I think his music goes beyond that narrow easy to please demographic
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Spot on.
His fan base was made up of naive children who didn't know any better. My two youngest daughters were among them, they grew out of it.
What's with these venomous personal attacks on MJ fans? Don't you think this is out of line and just a little uncalled for?
Hey, if they want to defend a child molesting, elephant man bones buying, face falling apart, baby dangling freak, then fuck em.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
I'm not sure that he moved much beyond that demographic. Especially after watching the footage of his post Thriller concerts the last few days.
but isnt it ALWAYS teenage girls? most of the big pop acts have been big with teenage girls, name any boybanad in the history of Pop music, and they were big with teenage girls.
Teenage girls were not a large percentage of Jackson's fan base? My younger daughters and their friends would beg to differ.
That said im sure Micheal Jackson had fans other than teenage girls, I think his music goes beyond that narrow easy to please demographic
I'm not sure that he moved much beyond that demographic. Especially after watching the footage of his post Thriller concerts the last few days.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Those teenage girls are the ones who are now acting like crazy women and crying uncontrollably all over the 24 hour news channels, or worse they are the women who lined up to support Michael Jackson outside the court house. There are few fanbases who will give there loyalty & 100% support to an artists like teenage girls.
Of course those "teenage girls" I mention are really no different to Trekkies, Whovians, Browncoats or any other sci-fi fan base, of which I include myself.
I think they are his biggest fans, the types of fans who go to concerts, buy ALL the albums and various merchandise.but isnt it ALWAYS teenage girls? most of the big pop acts have been big with teenage girls, name any boybanad in the history of Pop music, and they were big with teenage girls.Teenage girls were not a large percentage of Jackson's fan base? My younger daughters and their friends would beg to differ.
That said im sure Micheal Jackson had fans other than teenage girls, I think his music goes beyond that narrow easy to please demographic
I'm not sure that he moved much beyond that demographic. Especially after watching the footage of his post Thriller concerts the last few days.
Those teenage girls are the ones who are now acting like crazy women and crying uncontrollably all over the 24 hour news channels, or worse they are the women who lined up to support Michael Jackson outside the court house. There are few fanbases who will give there loyalty & 100% support to an artists like teenage girls.
Of course those "teenage girls" I mention are really no different to Trekkies, Whovians, Browncoats or any other sci-fi fan base, of which I include myself.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
My two youngest daughters numbered among them until he was charged, they both have young boys of their own.
My two youngest daughters numbered among them until he was charged, they both have young boys of their own.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Soooo .. they were bigger when Pete Best was the drummer?
Or do you mean that Paul John and George had a secret but incredibly popular career as a trio?
--Ted
Soooo .. they were bigger when Pete Best was the drummer?
Or do you mean that Paul John and George had a secret but incredibly popular career as a trio?
--Ted
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Actually, I was referring to their heights. Popularity is very relative so I went with the one measure I could easily google.
Actually, I was referring to their heights. Popularity is very relative so I went with the one measure I could easily google.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Warning: sudden left turn ahead ...
--Ted
Warning: sudden left turn ahead ...
--Ted
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
The man has 13 number one hits, won 13 grammys, sold 750 million records worldwide over a period of 37 goddamn years and your going to sit up here and say he wasn't a musical genus? That's a lot of horse shit!
And that's not even including his time with the Jackson 5.
Being able to keep a die hard fan base over the course of several decades is what makes a great artist! Both the Beatles and Elvis record sales could be attributed to a die hard fan base. Most of which started off as teenage girls!
This is a comparison between two of the most significant acts in the recording industry. This is a comparison between two of the greatest acts in the recording industry. Not a comparison between one who is great and one who isn't!
The man was inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame twice!
So yes, I say you are being a bigot!
The man has 13 number one hits, won 13 grammys, sold 750 million records worldwide over a period of 37 goddamn years and your going to sit up here and say he wasn't a musical genus? That's a lot of horse shit!
And that's not even including his time with the Jackson 5.
Being able to keep a die hard fan base over the course of several decades is what makes a great artist! Both the Beatles and Elvis record sales could be attributed to a die hard fan base. Most of which started off as teenage girls!
This is a comparison between two of the most significant acts in the recording industry. This is a comparison between two of the greatest acts in the recording industry. Not a comparison between one who is great and one who isn't!
What I find offensive is you not wanting to give a black man credit for his accomplishments! It's not like we are talking about MC Hammer here. We talking about MJ who has accomplished everything nessessary to be considered one of the biggest if not the biggest artist of all time! You're sitting up here scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for ways to spin him into being a one hit wonder.
The man was inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame twice!
So yes, I say you are being a bigot!
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Why on earth would it be bigotry not to like his music? I mean seriously. I didn't, sure as hell doesn't make me a bigot.
Why on earth would it be bigotry not to like his music? I mean seriously. I didn't, sure as hell doesn't make me a bigot.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
You need to actually read a post before you attempt to reply to it.
Denying the accomplishments of Michael Jackson is bigotry. Not disliking his music. My post makes that clear.
You need to actually read a post before you attempt to reply to it.
Denying the accomplishments of Michael Jackson is bigotry. Not disliking his music. My post makes that clear.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Yeah, but that's not what was said. He just that his fanbase was gullible and Jackson reused alot of stuff. I feel the same way about lots of artists including Jackson. Not to mention Elvis.
Yeah, but that's not what was said. He just that his fanbase was gullible and Jackson reused alot of stuff. I feel the same way about lots of artists including Jackson. Not to mention Elvis.
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?
Well if he/she is willing to call the fanbase of the Beatles and Elvis gullible I will take back my statement. If not, my statement stands!
Well if he/she is willing to call the fanbase of the Beatles and Elvis gullible I will take back my statement. If not, my statement stands!
