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Who's bigger? MJ or The Beatles?

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

^I agree. The Beatles will have/have had a far greater impact on the music industry and popular culture.

Jackson affected fashion for a brief time and perhaps even promoting and marketing, but in a decade from now, I doubt his influence will still be felt. His music performing might be respected but his music will not. His bizarre personal life will, I think, make him become a punchline or a cautionary tale--not a revered music icon.

You are spot on.

He was a great dancer, if he's lucky people will remember that. Most likely it will be more for his bizarre behavior.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

The Beatles were far more versatile in their style, composition and performance. While Jackson was amazing at what he did, he was a one-really-good-trick pony.

--Ted
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Here's a few thoughts on each of these top artists:

1) Elvis Presley - Ultimately, his strength is in his singing ability. He blows these others out of the water in terms of pure vocal skill, his ability to emote and his ability to interpret a piece of music. He was the one who started the rock'n'roll revolution and broke down barriers that were between different genres of music. He effortlessly mixed genres unconsciously and inspired following generations. However, he was from an era where vocal ability did not necessitate you write the music. He was simply from a different era and that is something that the following eras can't quite comprehend. However, his interpretive skills are practically unmatched. He could take a song and completely transform it effortlessly into something else entirely. He was a master of manipulating the emotions in his voice and the audience's reaction. He was also a very humble, flawed and generous human being who was overtaken by a larger-than-life image that he has not escaped and could not live up to.

2) The Beatles - While hardly Elvis-level singers, they were very successful and talented songwriters. They also were there when the Baby Boomers became teenagers, unlike Elvis, who was born during the Depression and whose teenage girls were those born in the Depression and circa WWII. The Beatles fans were the next generation and found their voice in them. The Beatles were also much more political, reflecting this period. Music was not nearly as focused on the singing ability, pure, raw sex appeal and emotional qualities of the music that Elvis brought, but trying to find some kind of deeper meaning. The earliest and most popular era of the Beatles, however, was very much a fun boy band factor (and their early music was LARGELY covers--look up Twist And Shout and tons of other songs). This was in the era of musicians who had been inspired by Elvis (even if their young fans were largely dismissive of what came before) and melded it with their own generation's priorities. The Beatles were influential in their studio output, but struggled as live performers and dealing with massive crowds (whereas Elvis had similar crowds, but was much more adept at controlling them). I personally have issues with a number of John Lennon's biographical elements. For one, Lennon made fun of disabled people and hating seeing them at concerts, he was extremely egotistical (whereas Elvis was known for being self-deprecating of himself and his abilities--he underestimated himself whereas Lennon thought very highly of himself) and his Marxist leanings/Yoko-influenced nuttiness (Bagism?) makes him tied too heavily with one era, rather than timeless. One of the most revealing things about the counterculture era and the Beatles is when George Harrison was backstage at Elvis' Madison Square Garden '72 concert. Elvis was dressed to the nines and looked superhuman while George had a hippie beard and torn jeans. George actually denounced the hippie movement due to this meeting with his idol. One thing that can be said, is that while Elvis and Michael only had themselves, the Beatles had each other when dealing with fame of immense proportions no other people on the face of the Earth have dealt with.

Michael Jackson - Not particularly someone I would call first and foremost a singer, by any means (he's no Elvis Presley, The Righteous Brothers, The Platters, Cher or Freddie Mercury in terms of vocal prowess in rock'n'roll singing), but he was is a consummate visual artist. While Elvis was the master showman, he was hardly choreographed, had practically no stage effects other than himself and was quite raw and untrained. Jackson was a visionary in choreography, sleek performance styles and had a significant amount of charisma to boot. But with others before him, the image has come to cloud the human being under the grotesque façade he created over himself and he was never able to grow up. While Elvis more or less stopped maturing when he made his first million (age 21), Michael never got past the stage of a severely traumatized and incomplete child. Michael is one of the worst examples of child stars and stage parents creating a disaster in the formation of a complete adult human being.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Jackson will probably be remembered longer as a personality and as a performer - among other things, he had a great many more memorable performances committed to film and tape, and his personal evolution (however you want to analyze it negatively or positively) took place in public over a period of time.

As a musician and a musical influence - the Beatles win hands down. Jackson would probably have agreed with that, as his respect for them was immense - and he had a shrewd business understanding of their value as well (47.5 million for the publishing rights to their music, now worth an estimated 1 billion).

That Jackson "defined the music video" is moot - that form is, creatively, a fossil. It's like praising someone for having programmed the definitive Atari 2600 game. Jackson's legacy there matters only for his videos themselves, not for his "influence" on them.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Jackson will probably be remembered longer as a personality and as a performer - among other things, he had a great many more memorable performances committed to film and tape, and his personal evolution (however you want to analyze it negatively or positively) took place in public, recorded, over a period of decades.

As a musician and a musical influence - the Beatles win hands down. Jackson would probably have agreed with that, as his respect for them was immense - and he had a shrewd business understanding of their value as well (47.5 million for the publishing rights to their music, now worth an estimated 1 billion).

That Jackson "defined the music video" is moot - that form is, creatively, a fossil. It's like praising someone for having programmed the definitive Atari 2600 game. Jackson's legacy there matters only for his videos themselves, not for his "influence" on them.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

The Beatles, for the reasons mentioned.
But MJ, should be given credit for probably launching MTV and the whole music video business.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Elvis and the Beatles are the only two artists who sold around or over 1 billion. ;) Michael is somewhere in the 750 million range, I believe.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Beatles by a mile. Honestly not even close. Just a symptom of "what have you done for me lately?" and a stupid f'ing media, where every new thing has to be the biggest, best, most important, etc. Right now, CNN has a poll up asking if MJ is the biggest pop star of all time. almost 60% of retards are answering Yes at the moment :lol:
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

I can certainly see the Beatles being a huge, big, influence and certainly, possibly, the bigger star. But, certainly, MJ's impact on music and the industry is profound and the man is a -musical- legned in his own right. He defined the '80s as much as the Beatles defined the '60s.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

If you ask a white they will say Beatles, you ask a black and they will say MJ.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

That Jackson "defined the music video" is moot - that form is, creatively, a fossil. It's like praising someone for having programmed the definitive Atari 2600 game. Jackson's legacy there matters only for his videos themselves, not for his "influence" on them.

An excellent point. One I have been thinking about myself every time Jackson popularizing MTV is listed as one of his legacies. The MTV of the 1980s does not exist anymore! The only thing the current incarnation has in common is the name. This was really brought home by seeing the current network airing his old videos in tribute. It feel like a throwback to a dead era.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

It seems a lot of Jackson's glory is tied to the sales of Thriller. But its just one album. None of his other successes were close.

Yet the Beatles had sustained success for a whole decade. They too had global success. Their promo films and A Hard Day's Night and Help really set the frame work for music videos.

More than anything their songs have been covered by dozens and dozens of other artists. Their music and iconography is still prevalent decades after they broke up. Yet Jackson's music is too tied to himself to have that type of afterlife.
Precisely. Furthermore, "Yesterday" has been covered more than any song with over 3000 versions.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

The beatles.

But as a single artist, MJ is bigger than say Lennon or McCartney. Just my opinion.

This is how I feel too, and it feels more balanced and fair to MJ. In a discussion of who is bigger and who had the larger cultural impact...MJ vs. the Beatles, well Beatles win. But that's one man vs. the combined talent of 4 guys. The contest is even a bit unfair. Elvis as a single man can often trump the Beatles simply because he was the pioneer who came before them, MJ can not have that advantage.

But in a single artist competition, MJ vs Lennon or McCartney, hey MJ dusts any Beatle in a one on one contest easily without breaking a sweat.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

McCartney easily bets Jackson in sustaining his career across decades and decades. His creative output is amazing. Releasing a new album almost every other year I think. Constantly performing and touring across the world since the 1960s.

I would also add that being able to successfully work with others is notable talent in its own right. Particularly among creative types which are often egocentric. Whether musicians or artists or filmmakers. So the idea that the Beatles succeeded as a group diminishes their individual significances is absurd.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

John, Paul, George and Ringo.

The mere fact that the Beatles broke up nearly FORTY YEARS AGO and they are STILL the standard by which the success of others is measured says it all.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

It seems a lot of Jackson's glory is tied to the sales of Thriller. But its just one album. None of his other successes were close.

Are you kidding me? His follow up album "Bad" sold 30 million copies world wide and spawned 5 billboard number one hits!

His next album after that called "Dangerous" sold 32 million copies world wide.

His next album after that called "His Story" sold 20 million copies world wide.

"Off The Wall" which came out before Thriller sold 20 million copies world wide.

To say Michael Jacksons success is based on the success of one album is insane!

MJ is way bigger than the Beatles have ever been.
 
Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

It seems a lot of Jackson's glory is tied to the sales of Thriller. But its just one album. None of his other successes were close.

Are you kidding me? His follow up album "Bad" sold 30 million copies world wide and spawned 5 billboard number one hits!

His next album after that called "Dangerous" sold 32 million copies world wide.

His next album after that called "His Story" sold 20 million copies world wide.

"Off The Wall" which came out before Thriller sold 20 million copies world wide.

To say Michael Jacksons success is based on the success of one album is insane!

MJ is way bigger than the Beatles have ever been.


Wrong.

According to the The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) it breaks down like this.

http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=tblTopArt

ArtistCertified Units in Millions
BEATLES, THE 170
BROOKS, GARTH 128
PRESLEY, ELVIS 119
LED ZEPPELIN 111.5
EAGLES 100
JOEL, BILLY 79.5
PINK FLOYD 74.5
STREISAND, BARBRA 71
AC/DC 71
JOHN, ELTON 70
STRAIT, GEORGE 68
AEROSMITH 66.5
ROLLING STONES, THE 66
SPRINGSTEEN, BRUCE 64
MADONNA 63.5
CAREY, MARIAH 62.5
JACKSON, MICHAEL 61.5
METALLICA 58 VAN HALEN 56.5
HOUSTON, WHITNEY 54
 
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