Who was stronger the Romulans or Klingons?
- Thread starter Warbird
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My estimate is that they were about equal, or the more powerful one would have tried to conquer the other. And I estimate that each were somewhere between 51 - 74 percent of the power of the Federation - which is why whenever the Romulans or the Duras family plot against either the rest of the Klingons or the Federation, they always seem to need one another to do so.
I would say that the Klingon's and the Federation's militaries are about equal in size and ability. The Romulans are half the size of either of the other two.
The Klingons and Romulan kind of balance out because the Klingons have a much larger border, also Klingon families use their fleets to guard against each other.
The Klingons and Romulan kind of balance out because the Klingons have a much larger border, also Klingon families use their fleets to guard against each other.
One could assume the Klingons have the largest military force of the three traditional powers. The Federation would be second with the Romulans a close third.
The differences between them are that the Romulans have changed from a pure stealth mode tactics like in the ENT and TOS days to having the largest ships in their fleet. The Romulan warbirds are huge and powerful.
The Klingon have numbers but are at a disadvantage in terms of technology by the 24th century. I think Praxis and the change in their culture has stunted their research and development groups so that they are still using hundreds of nearly 100 year old (or older) starships on the front lines. Though to be fair, so does Starfleet with there endless supply of Mirandas and Excelsiors.
The Federation seems to keep the edge (for the most part) in terms of technology. Especially defensive technology and sensor arrays. There weapons seem impressive as well when used at full potential.
By comparison, the Cardassians, seem to be behind the three powers but able to muster a tighter defense in their own space. Enough to keep the Klingons and Romulans from taking advantage of them until the Dominion inspired political chaos leading to the Klingon invasion of Cardassian space. At which point the Klingons muster a large reserve of ships for war and pretty much crush the Cardassians.
The Federation tends to hold back a lot, and their ships and crews are not designed for only combat. They don't fair as well with certain designs, but others, if properly handled, can make short work of Klingon ships. Federation ships tend to operate alone while Klingon attack groups are just that, groups. So the outnumbered Starfleet ships get mauled during their short war.
The differences between them are that the Romulans have changed from a pure stealth mode tactics like in the ENT and TOS days to having the largest ships in their fleet. The Romulan warbirds are huge and powerful.
The Klingon have numbers but are at a disadvantage in terms of technology by the 24th century. I think Praxis and the change in their culture has stunted their research and development groups so that they are still using hundreds of nearly 100 year old (or older) starships on the front lines. Though to be fair, so does Starfleet with there endless supply of Mirandas and Excelsiors.
The Federation seems to keep the edge (for the most part) in terms of technology. Especially defensive technology and sensor arrays. There weapons seem impressive as well when used at full potential.
By comparison, the Cardassians, seem to be behind the three powers but able to muster a tighter defense in their own space. Enough to keep the Klingons and Romulans from taking advantage of them until the Dominion inspired political chaos leading to the Klingon invasion of Cardassian space. At which point the Klingons muster a large reserve of ships for war and pretty much crush the Cardassians.
The Federation tends to hold back a lot, and their ships and crews are not designed for only combat. They don't fair as well with certain designs, but others, if properly handled, can make short work of Klingon ships. Federation ships tend to operate alone while Klingon attack groups are just that, groups. So the outnumbered Starfleet ships get mauled during their short war.
Worf actually defeats a burly Romulan in a hand-to-hand scuffle (after first disarming him with a surprise blow) at the end of "Redemption II". This after he has supposedly been weakened by torture.
We don't see Romulans fighting and defeating Worf or other Klingons. Typically, Romulans make sure they come in such overwhelming force that the enemy has no opportunity to fight back.
We might also argue they are few in number, and used almost exclusively in the role described above: creating massive local superiority (despite overall inferiority) so that they very few fights the Romulans do pick will always end in their victory. That is, the lack of medium or small fighting vessels might indicate overall weakness.
In ST6, it seems Klingons and Feds stay out of each other's throats because Romulans might choose to ally with one or the other at an inopportune moment. But when Romulans enter into secret pacts, all-out war between the two superpowers suddenly becomes a possibility. (Perhaps the Romulans promised their allegiance to both sides?)
Timo Saloniemi
Wouldn't the Romulans be the stronger party?
I mean they're the race who sat back & presumably built up their forces while letting the other AQ powers fight each other, for the most part. I always saw them as a China parallel, the quiet, strong power who you wouldn't take on.
I mean they're the race who sat back & presumably built up their forces while letting the other AQ powers fight each other, for the most part. I always saw them as a China parallel, the quiet, strong power who you wouldn't take on.
"Fighting each other" need not have weakened the other players, though. To the contrary, they could have evolved their militaries to match the most recent threats (in terms of tactics, technologies, logistics and manufacturing methods alike), while Romulans would be stuck running simulations based on a century-old conflict.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
About parity I'd imagine, certainly neither is vastly stronger than the other.
Neither compares in strength with the Federation, but both are more than capable of winning a war against them on their own borders on their own terms.
Think Korean War, in most key areas the UN possessed technical superiority and better support, and had vastly more resources but the war was a bloody stalemate.
Yeah, I always figured the Klingon empire was stronger than it looked. Probably after the Praxis situation and the steps towards uneasy peace at Khitomer, the empire was probably provided with all sorts of financial assistance which helped them to grow and prosper -- not unlike Japan following WWII. She might look somewhat meek, but beneath the surface she might be equal to the Federation again by the time of TNG, possibly even slightly stronger. As has been mentioned already in this thread, in one alternative timeline we got to see, they were able to beat down Starfleet with very little trouble at all; while in another alternative future they had managed to conquer the Romulan empire and had become antagonists to Starfleet again. Even in our own 'official' time-frame we saw their military might come out during the Dominion conflict.
The strength of the Romulans is harder to guage due to us seeing really very little and of their general secrecy. It's hard to get a big picture of how strong they are, but my impression has always been that the answer is "not very". Even in Nemesis, where the story is effectively centered upon them, I kept feeling that there's really very little evidence of them having a massive battle fleet. They've got some impressive ships, and are very good at pumping themselves up as being Big Playas on the galactic stage. But I'd wager that a lot of it is bluster, hiding what is actually a very paltry military force compared to the Klingons and certainly the Federation.
The strength of the Romulans is harder to guage due to us seeing really very little and of their general secrecy. It's hard to get a big picture of how strong they are, but my impression has always been that the answer is "not very". Even in Nemesis, where the story is effectively centered upon them, I kept feeling that there's really very little evidence of them having a massive battle fleet. They've got some impressive ships, and are very good at pumping themselves up as being Big Playas on the galactic stage. But I'd wager that a lot of it is bluster, hiding what is actually a very paltry military force compared to the Klingons and certainly the Federation.
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The Romulans see the Fed/Klingon alliance as a major problem to their plans. This implies they THINK they are strong enough to defeat either faction on its own - probably starting with the Federation. Now people tend to underestimate the Federation's ability or stomach for war, but even so this must put the Romulans at least on a par with them.
It might also be that the Romulans dislike alliances solely because their only hope of ever gaining in power and prestige is that the real military powers fight and weaken each other. Being so weak, they wouldn't want to militarily challenge their neighbors, be they in conflict or alliance - but they can benefit from conflict and cannot benefit from alliance.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
The Romulans seems to be able to get multiple large starships to locations more often than the Federation, while the Klingons tend to send multiple smaller ships. Starfleet usually only sends one ship to things, while the Romulans send two and the Klingons three. The difference being that the Romulan ships are each larger than the largest known Federation starship.
However when the war comes, the Romulan portion of the fleets seem smaller (in shots of the fleets, the map and charts seem to have forces as large as the Federation or Klingon fleets), though it is made up entirely of giant starships. They were able to hold there own against the Dominion once they entered the war, and their ships certainly held out better than the Cardassian ships during their little raid of the Changling homeworld prior to the war.
However when the war comes, the Romulan portion of the fleets seem smaller (in shots of the fleets, the map and charts seem to have forces as large as the Federation or Klingon fleets), though it is made up entirely of giant starships. They were able to hold there own against the Dominion once they entered the war, and their ships certainly held out better than the Cardassian ships during their little raid of the Changling homeworld prior to the war.
The romulans seem to have an emphasis on huge powerful capital ships, obviously the klingons seem to have a far greater emphasis on numbers and most of their ships seem smaller and older but still do the job.
Overall I'd say that if the romulans are able to put out warbirds like they do then they seem to have more resources compared to the klingons, and this could be a factor
Overall I'd say that if the romulans are able to put out warbirds like they do then they seem to have more resources compared to the klingons, and this could be a factor
Near the end of the Dominion War, Section 31 seemed to be more worried about the Romulans than the Klingons. Probably because the Klingons had been engaged in war since they attacked Cardassia prior to the Dominion War. In addition to that they had fought Starfleet for part of a year, thus causing even more losses. Thus the more careful Romulans might come out at the end of the war a larger threat to the Federation, if not properly allied/friendly relations are kept.
The Klingon Empire will need time to rebuild after all the loses in ships and warriors during those three or four years of combat. The Romulans were only engaged with the Dominon for a little over a year, and likely didn't sustain as many casualties as the Klingons and Federation seems to be the main groups holding the line while the Romulans were used to help push the offensives.
The Klingon Empire will need time to rebuild after all the loses in ships and warriors during those three or four years of combat. The Romulans were only engaged with the Dominon for a little over a year, and likely didn't sustain as many casualties as the Klingons and Federation seems to be the main groups holding the line while the Romulans were used to help push the offensives.
TerraNovan
Lieutenant Commander
I always figured the klingons out numbered the romulans 100 to 1.
Klingons have to have pretty massive population number. A society as chaotic as theirs I dont think would fair well, if they had a small population, as their power is completely brute force.
The romulans would seem to have a very small numbers. For one they are directly related to vulcans which seems to suggest they have a very long reproductive cycle. . Also the fact traditionally they were not seen in person sugguest they dont have the population numbers to be roaming the galaxy, on top of all that they to be the most well oiled military machine, the level of discipline alone sugguest they must have a small population, otherwise theyd be a major threat.
Klingons have to have pretty massive population number. A society as chaotic as theirs I dont think would fair well, if they had a small population, as their power is completely brute force.
The romulans would seem to have a very small numbers. For one they are directly related to vulcans which seems to suggest they have a very long reproductive cycle. . Also the fact traditionally they were not seen in person sugguest they dont have the population numbers to be roaming the galaxy, on top of all that they to be the most well oiled military machine, the level of discipline alone sugguest they must have a small population, otherwise theyd be a major threat.
I always thought the TNG era Romulan warbird looked like it could seriously whip some ass. To me, that was always the most intimidating ship in the franchise.
I know we saw it in a few squabbles, but I'm not sure we ever fully saw it go all out. I always wondered whether the Enterprise-D could stand a full assault by one of those ships.
I've seen every TNG episode, but don't remember if we ever saw that.
I know we saw it in a few squabbles, but I'm not sure we ever fully saw it go all out. I always wondered whether the Enterprise-D could stand a full assault by one of those ships.
I've seen every TNG episode, but don't remember if we ever saw that.
True Ithekro, the klingons took on the Cardassians, then they fought a limited war against the Federation, then fought the Dominion when they sided with Cardassia that pushed the Klingons out of their territory...on top of that they were holding the line by them selves against Dominion/Cardassian/Breen because Klingon ships were the only ones that could defend against Breen weapons.
With that said though I do remember the Romulan's taking out 15 Dominion bases along there border when they joined the war and I also remember hearing in one of the episodes that the Romulan's opened up another front to the war by themselves.
With that said though I do remember the Romulan's taking out 15 Dominion bases along there border when they joined the war and I also remember hearing in one of the episodes that the Romulan's opened up another front to the war by themselves.
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