Who was protecting the Kitomer Confrence?

[Marsden]

This is something I just thought of last night. Sulu knew where the confrence was, presumably most other Captains did then because I don't perceive Sulu as a "high level" Captain. When Excelsior showed up, the only other ships that were there were Enterprise and Chang's Superbird. Ok. 3 ships that weren't supposed to be there in close proximity to a planet that has the Federation President, many high officials from the Federation government, many officers of Star Fleet including the High Commander and some admirals and the Chancellor and many ministers of the Klingon Empire.

What security measures were in place to protect all of these people?

Know one really seemed to think that Chang was gliding around cloaked until he started taunting. Did the people on the ground even know what happened? That there was a major ship to ship combat that resulted in an explosion.

I thought that the confrence was shielded, but then Kirk and officers just beam in. And everyone is shocked to see them, like Enterprise wasn't in system for the last 20 minutes fighting an intruder.

What if a Romulan slipped right in and bombarded them from orbit? Wouldn't the resulting chaos of the destrution of bother the Federation's and Empires governments be just what they wanted? Even if 23rd century forensics can somehow tie it back to them, by the time the investigation is over there would still have been a major conflict consuming both sides as many lower level politicians are forced to make decisions they aren't capable or qualifed to do.

And it's not like the Romulans are unaware, their Ambassador is there for the whole thing.

 

[Timo]

One would assume that the conspirators had given instructions that nobody was to intervene, no matter whatever happened.

Different parties would need to be given different orders to that effect. Starfleet captains "in the know" would just smile knowingly when all the Klingon ships suddenly cloaked and withdrew, while Klingon captains "in the know" would just smile knowingly when the order came to cloak and engage some imaginary enemy somewhere else. Captains "not in the know" would hopefully be in a minority...

Also, the site would no doubt be shielded against beaming - except for the time around the assassination, so that the assassin could escape, and again key personnel would be in on the conspiracy. Too bad their actions would also allow Kirk to beam down!

I guess the biggest question is, who was hosting the event? Whose world was this "neutral" Khitomer, really? Whose starships would have no business being there? Any of the Big Three could decide at any moment to rain death on the other two; that's probably the best assurance that none of them would, regardless of how many ships each has in orbit.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

Well given recent events as far they knew the assination of Gorkon was the actions of a rouge Captain Kirk, and even allowing for that after dropping off the edelegates the starships might have been requested to withdraw to prevent any further incidents.

 

[Smellmet]

What security measures were in place to protect all of these people?

Probably the same planetary defences that were in place when a top secret supership was opening fire on the Federation flagship in Earth orbit in Star Trek into Darkness.

 

[Memory Alpha]

Never really thought about it, but amazingly, I don't think anyone was. I don't even know that there is security there. I did think it implied, though, but certainly not clear, that the place of the conference was not general knowledge and that Sulu had some inside information. Security is oddly very, very lax. Of course it always perplexed me that the Enterprise flies right into and through Klingon space and only encounters a couple of drunken outpost guards as well.

 

[FormerLurker]

That's not so surprising. Space is a big place. The real question is why they weren't pursued. But the outpost may have spread the word to leave them alone, not realizing who they let through.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

In watching the movie again, I also wondered about the idea of building a top secret super ship at a facility orbiting right above Jupiter's Great Red Spot. Also wondering about a model of that ship being out on display on that tabletop in the line up of ships including the NX-01, Enterprise ring-ship, etc....

 

[Ithekro]

It may have not been a secret super ship. Just new.

 

[HigHurtenflurst]

In watching the movie again, I also wondered about the idea of building a top secret super ship at a facility orbiting right above Jupiter's Great Red Spot. Also wondering about a model of that ship being out on display on that tabletop in the line up of ships including the NX-01, Enterprise ring-ship, etc....

Don't look for "logic" in a movie idiotic enough to have Kirk park a gigantic starship in a lake. That's as far as I got before I gave up on STID.

The Khitomer thing always bothered me too. You'd think all the major powers would have had a space presence; an agreed-to, evenly balanced number of ships orbiting under a flag of truce. They had to get there somehow! Would have complicated the plot too much, I suppose.

 

[Ithekro]

Warp shuttles. An agreement to not have any ships around would be something.

 

[Timo]

Probably the same planetary defences that were in place when a top secret supership was opening fire on the Federation flagship in Earth orbit in Star Trek into Darkness.

Well, yes, the two situations are very similar. There's this rogue torpedo-happy murderer Captain Kirk, then this veteran Admiral who formally commands all of Starfleet and is heroically defending the Federation from the mutinous Kirk (in person at the very front lines in ST:ID, even), and the defenses obey... Now which of these two people?

I don't really see any cause for wonder if security is "lax" at a location controlled by people wanting to arrange an assassination. It probably doesn't look "lax" until the moment the assassination is supposed to happen, at which point some will be surprised at its complete failure to prevent the deed while others will not... And it's Kirk's good luck that he arrives at a time when the conspirators cannot afford to tighten the security measures, not even for show.

The idea that everybody's starships would be ordered to withdraw to a safe (that is, ineffective) distance because starships are such likely assassins is sound IMHO.

It may have not been a secret super ship. Just new.

Indeed. Admiral Marcus was ready to destroy the Enterprise in order to get his war started, heavily suggesting that he already had plenty of firepower available, that is, several ships that made the Enterprise look puny and expendable. Those were probably "over the counter" in most respects (but not every junior hothead skipper would get the memo).

It's just that the mission of Marcus to destroy Kirk was not over the counter: he used a mercenary crew for it, rather than Starfleet, despite definitely being formally entitled to use the latter. But nobody listening in on the battle need know that part. It would suffice that they hear Marcus tell them to stay out of the fight, unless Kirk tries to escape and head towards Earth, in which case they are to blast the Enterprise to very fine dust.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[trekshark]

the same people that are protecting Earth all those times the hero ship is the only ship around that can protect it
aka no one

 

[Ithekro]

In theory, Earth shouldn't need protecting if the threats are intercepted at the borders. The super powerful threats just bat most of the border patrols aside, or are too fast for them to catch.

The Breen attack on Earth was intecepted even if it was a surprise. Both Borg attacks were intercepted. The Klingon ship chasing NX-01 Enterprise back to Earth was intercepted.

 

[Timo]

One of the reasons the Roman republic survived as long as it did was because Rome was not protected by the military. When a military presence did emerge, so did military dictatorship (in which the military elected dictators, even when those weren't necessarily military dictators) - and since the military was everywhere, so were the dictators, with as many as four sometimes claiming the throne at the same time.

Starfleet might simply have been told to stay the hell out of Dodge, and only guarding Earth at a distance from which it would take so long to come and bombard Earth that other Starfleet units could engage in necessary fratricide first...

That doesn't explain Khitomer, where Klingons wouldn't have had similar ideas. But for all we know, the space Romans did.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Don't look for "logic" in a movie idiotic enough to have Kirk park a gigantic starship in a lake. That's as far as I got before I gave up on STID.

Where were you when the same thing happened in Star Trek: Insurrection?

 

[EnriqueH]

This security thing is a bit of a minor plot hole.

To say there would be no starships or a heavy security presence is ludicrous.

The Klingon chancellor had just been assassinated!

Ok, Kirk and McCoy were the convicted assassins, but come on.

Realistically, (and I think we all love it when our Trek goes with realism), there would and should be heavy security. To say or do otherwise is naïve.

I have no problem with Sulu knowing...*if* he had been assigned to patrol or provide security measures. But if he has to warp to the site at the breaking point, he is clearly not assigned to those tasks as he is nowhere near Khitomer. So why would he know?

After the assassination, wouldn't sensitive information be on a "need to know" basis?

Minor plot hole, but still.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If Khitomer was a super-secret location for these talks, they might have not kept ships around specifically to avoid drawing attention there.

 

[EnriqueH]

I don't know, man. Sounds pretty feeble.

"The Klingon chancellor was just assassinated a couple of days ago. Eh, let's forgo security altogether so as not to attract attention."

I would think heavy starship presence would be seen as an effective deterrent.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but I think it would've been cool if Sulu was already at Khitomer.

 

[Timo]

I would think heavy starship presence would be seen as an effective deterrent.

The two parties are trying to stop each other from destroying the other party with "heavy starship presence"; it would definitely be a prerequisite to leave that presence home as a goodwill gesture!

Why would the parties worry about outside attack? They already know who is trying to kill them: the guy on the other side of the negotiation table. There's no need for third parties to meddle, and if they did, all the better, because then the Feds and Klingons could unite forces for a rare once and wipe out the culture of the assailants down to the last cute pet ooglok. "Whew, that was refreshing. Now, to continue from where my late predecessor left off..."

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EnriqueH]

I would think heavy starship presence would be seen as an effective deterrent.

The two parties are trying to stop each other from destroying the other party with "heavy starship presence"; it would definitely be a prerequisite to leave that presence home as a goodwill gesture!

Why would the parties worry about outside attack? They already know who is trying to kill them: the guy on the other side of the negotiation table. There's no need for third parties to meddle, and if they did, all the better, because then the Feds and Klingons could unite forces for a rare once and wipe out the culture of the assailants down to the last cute pet ooglok. "Whew, that was refreshing. Now, to continue from where my late predecessor left off..."

Timo Saloniemi

Those are all valid points, but they don't justify the lack of security.

Even with everything you said, I still can't imagine not having security with all the heads of state attending.