What are the folks at Memory Alpha likely basing their conclusions upon?
Who was Andrew Kim, going to date Marry and have children with?
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
- Start date
I've always thought the same way about this episode...always disturbed me that Harry waited for his best friend's daughter to grow up and marry her. I would have perferred Harry marrying one of the twins...that seems very desperate!
Disgusting is more like it, especially when you consider he probably also baby sat her and watched her parents change her diapers.
Andrew would have married nobody.
Shucks, I was trying to be complementary to the memory Alpha people. Voyagers discontiuity is a-fucking-mazing. Which is cute until you read the interviews with Ron Moore.
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I found what Memory Alpha are basing the age on; and it's where I remembered it from, too. The crew has a 2nd-birthday party for Kes in "Twisted," which episode takes place in 2371. (Neelix says in dialog that it's her second birthday.)
That makes Kes born in 2369 and leaving the city in 2371, as was quoted before. All of the episodes up through "The 37's" are in Memory Alpha's 2371 time line. They go in production order, the last four being:
* "Projections"
* "Elogium"
* "Twisted"
* "The 37's"
Kes was two years old in 2371, and "Endgame" takes place in 2378.
That makes Kes born in 2369 and leaving the city in 2371, as was quoted before. All of the episodes up through "The 37's" are in Memory Alpha's 2371 time line. They go in production order, the last four being:
* "Projections"
* "Elogium"
* "Twisted"
* "The 37's"
Kes was two years old in 2371, and "Endgame" takes place in 2378.
For all we know, although quite unlikely, Voyager was lost in January or December of 2371, but unfortunately that's the complete difference between what is canon and what is the badly communicated apocryphal intents of writers, directors and producers who got their vision screwed by fate and their workmates... No matter how little of 2371 was seen in season one before the calendar ticked over to 2372 in season two, it screws with the timing of the later episodes, since eventually they do start saying that they have been lost for x number of years equal to how long the show had been on the air...
Twisted and Elogium may have been made for season one but the effects of their shelfing alters everything. They are season two episodes, which is predominantly set in 2372.
That and we have no idea how many months or weeks Kes had been made a slave of the Kazon, fell in love with Neelix, and before Neelix rescued her which would screw with all our assumptions.
Meanwhile, Before and after was set in 2379, a year after Endgame.
Twisted and Elogium may have been made for season one but the effects of their shelfing alters everything. They are season two episodes, which is predominantly set in 2372.
That and we have no idea how many months or weeks Kes had been made a slave of the Kazon, fell in love with Neelix, and before Neelix rescued her which would screw with all our assumptions.
Meanwhile, Before and after was set in 2379, a year after Endgame.
In Cold Fire, Tanis says he is "20 years" and Kes says that the oldest Ocampa only lived to be nine.
When such things occur, Memory Alpha indicates that; they are pretty thorough. Your OP assumption is assuredly not "...so basic it's insane that anyone would be caught off guard by it."
And I'll willing to continue to assert that she wasn't 2 years old in Caretaker.
To continue to assert the OP, you'd have to say 9 months old. And you called anyone insane who disagreed with that.
No, I said it was insane to think that she was older than a year in Caretaker, and that was much later than the op. The nine month mentioning was from measuring by thumb after believing that anything that happened in season 2 happened in 2372, that and I haven't watched Elogium in years and I remembered the quote a slight bit differently.. But it is still possible. But the post most hinged oin the claims that kes was two in caretaker, which is clearly insane.
And anyways What's wrong with being insane?
And anyways What's wrong with being insane?
I kind of see Harry Kim ending up marrying an alternate-universe version of himself from a parallel Voyager where everyone's genders are swapped.
You said Kes was "assuredly less than one in Caretaker," and in the OP you said she met the VOY crew when she was 9 months. She met the VOY crew in Caretaker, and 9 months was your reference.
Above you changed to "less than two," and I would point out that "assuredly less than one" and "less than two" are not the same. So by your own reckoning, someone thinking that would be insane.
Using Memory Alpha's figures leaves my equation in good stead: Kes turns two in 2371, plus 7 years of show seasons, equals a life span of 9 years. Furthermore, she turns two toward the end of 2371, and she would turn 9 toward the end of 2378 (Season 7). They could have had a splendid send-off for her, had she made it to the end.
^^
I must respectfully disagree here. I don't think that Kes should have had any "send-off" at all. I think that she should be a part of the ongoing Voyager story (which also continues in the books).
As for the different dates mentione in different posts above, some years ago I decided to create a Voyager Timeline (at least for the first three seasons of the show). I used a Stardate Converter which I found at this site: http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/stardate.html.
According to what I found out, the events in "Caretaker" took place around Stardate 48315.6 which is Monday 26 April 2371.
Kes's birthday is in December, somewhere betwen the events in "Elogium" which took place at Stardate 48921.3 which is Friday 3 December 2371 and the events in "The 37's" which took place at Stardate 48975.1 which is Wednesday 22 December 2371.
Since the episode "Twisted" don't have any official Stardate, I took the liberty of placing it at Stardate 48961 in my Timeline which is Friday 17 December 2371. I did it because it did seem convenient to have it closer to the events in "The 37's" than "Elogium" and also because I wanted to squeeze in the events in the book "The Final Fury" between "Elogium" and "Twisted" as it was suggested in the book "Voyages Of Imagination" by Jeff Ayers (an encyclopedia about the different Star Trek books).
The official Stardate for the events in "Before And After is 50973 (22 December 2373) which is obviously wrong since it would place the events in that episode after the events in "Worst Case Scenario" which is Stardate 50953.4 (14 December 2373). In order to keep some sort of continuity when it comes to watching the episode and also due to some other events (Kes's change of hairstyle) I took the liberty of placing the events in "Before And After" around Stardate 50800 (Friday 19 October) which is between "Favorite Son" which has a Stardate of 50732.4 (Tuesday 25 September 2373) and the events in "Real Life" which took place at Stardate 50836.2 (Friday 2 November 2373). As for the events in the altered timeline, we can assume that they were taking place shortly before and around the events in "Year Of Hell" which started at Stardate 51268.4 (Monday 8 April 2374).
As for my Voyager Timeline, you'll find it here: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/timeline.html
I must respectfully disagree here. I don't think that Kes should have had any "send-off" at all. I think that she should be a part of the ongoing Voyager story (which also continues in the books).
As for the different dates mentione in different posts above, some years ago I decided to create a Voyager Timeline (at least for the first three seasons of the show). I used a Stardate Converter which I found at this site: http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/stardate.html.
According to what I found out, the events in "Caretaker" took place around Stardate 48315.6 which is Monday 26 April 2371.
Kes's birthday is in December, somewhere betwen the events in "Elogium" which took place at Stardate 48921.3 which is Friday 3 December 2371 and the events in "The 37's" which took place at Stardate 48975.1 which is Wednesday 22 December 2371.
Since the episode "Twisted" don't have any official Stardate, I took the liberty of placing it at Stardate 48961 in my Timeline which is Friday 17 December 2371. I did it because it did seem convenient to have it closer to the events in "The 37's" than "Elogium" and also because I wanted to squeeze in the events in the book "The Final Fury" between "Elogium" and "Twisted" as it was suggested in the book "Voyages Of Imagination" by Jeff Ayers (an encyclopedia about the different Star Trek books).
The official Stardate for the events in "Before And After is 50973 (22 December 2373) which is obviously wrong since it would place the events in that episode after the events in "Worst Case Scenario" which is Stardate 50953.4 (14 December 2373). In order to keep some sort of continuity when it comes to watching the episode and also due to some other events (Kes's change of hairstyle) I took the liberty of placing the events in "Before And After" around Stardate 50800 (Friday 19 October) which is between "Favorite Son" which has a Stardate of 50732.4 (Tuesday 25 September 2373) and the events in "Real Life" which took place at Stardate 50836.2 (Friday 2 November 2373). As for the events in the altered timeline, we can assume that they were taking place shortly before and around the events in "Year Of Hell" which started at Stardate 51268.4 (Monday 8 April 2374).
As for my Voyager Timeline, you'll find it here: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/timeline.html
I don't have a problem with this; but as I said, I don't think that's what they pictured on inception.^^
I must respectfully disagree here. I don't think that Kes should have had any "send-off" at all. I think that she should be a part of the ongoing Voyager story (which also continues in the books).
Personally, I view Kes as an extraordinary power and not dead after nine years, but rather gone beyond ordinary existence. Ambitious timeline, there.
Do I even need to point out what is wrong with this? You've been posting long enough to know better.
If Kes was celebrating her 2nd birthday in "Twisted" and stated in "Coldfire" that "the oldest Ocampian only lived to be 9.", then I assumed she was implying most Ocampans don't live a full 9 years.
Regardless of any of that though, Kes would still be dead by the end of the series.
