Who takes the Kobayashi Maru test?

[BillJ]

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

Their total series of actions probably weren't the same. From what we saw of prime Kirk in various combat situations during TOS and the movies, it's very unlikely he would have fired upon the defenseless Klingon ship's in the simulator. It would have been against his character. Defeated enemies are allowed to surrender, or sometimes withdrawal.


Alternate Kirk destroyed the defenseless ships with photon torpedoes. The KM is a test of character, Alt Kirk displayed his clearly.

Atl Kirk's actions were his expression of his opinion of the test.

And likely similar to his prime universe's counterpart.

 

[t_smitts]

My question, though, was would Academy instructors look more favorably on a cadet who DID cross the border, or didn't?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

It wouldn't really be a question of did you cross the border or not. The important question would be why did you cross the border (or not cross the border). If the cadet's answer to that is solid and they don't display any dangerous behavior during the test, they pass.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My impression is everyone fails.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Once again: The cadet's specific actions are not the problem. They don't really care what you do - it's how you do it. It's how you hold up under extreme pressure. Character is the only thing the examiners care about.

"There's no correct resolution. It's a test of character." - Admiral Kirk

 

[MarsWeeps]

Cadets who are on the command track are probably arrogant enough that they think they can win it regardless of the reputation of the test.

Maybe the test was originally given to just the cocky and arrogant cadets in order to knock them down a notch or two. Later it could have been added as a requirement for those pursuing command.

I don't think anyone can really "fail" it, unless they break down crying on the bridge begging for someone to help them. The important thing is to see that the cadet stays in control, even in the face of certain death.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't think anyone can really "fail" it, unless they break down crying on the bridge begging for someone to help them. The important thing is to see that the cadet stays in control, even in the face of certain death.

Exactly so.

The test is intentionally designed to make this happen, or at least try to. It throws up as many challenges as it can. The point is to MAKE the cadet break down and totally lose their shit. The only way the cadet can fail is if this happens.

If they act like Saavik or Kirk, where they fight back as best they can, even in the face of certain death, they pass.

 

[KaineMorrison]

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

 

[t_smitts]

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

This is assuming, of course that...

A) Your ship can transport 381 people (I checked) simultaneously, and...

B) That the Klingons can't pursue you, even at Warp 9.

Me, personally? This is gonna sound harsh, but I don't think one freighter is justification for an armed conflict with the Klingons that could easily escalate into war.

Imagine if some American plane went down in China or North Korea and you were captain of a nearby US Navy vessel. Do you violate their water (and land) in some sort of rescue mission?

 

[Kevman7987]

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

I get the feeling the test (unless reprogrammed) is designed to screw you period. If you warp in real quick like that, your warp drive probably fails or something. They will kill you no matter what. Just remember, you are alive when they start to eat you.

 

[KaineMorrison]

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

This is assuming, of course that...

A) Your ship can transport 381 people (I checked) simultaneously, and...

B) That the Klingons can't pursue you, even at Warp 9.

Me, personally? This is gonna sound harsh, but I don't think one freighter is justification for an armed conflict with the Klingons that could easily escalate into war.

Imagine if some American plane went down in China or North Korea and you were captain of a nearby US Navy vessel. Do you violate their water (and land) in some sort of rescue mission?

But not everyone is alive on the Maru.
A lot died.

Also yes. But you send in a Stealth Team. That is a very different scenario though. That one you know about. The Maru is something you "randomly" stumble upon.

 

[The Old Mixer]

First rule of Kobayashi Maru: Don't talk about Kobayashi Maru.

 

[KaineMorrison]

First rule of Kobayashi Maru: Don't talk about Kobayashi Maru.

Hey remember that one time when you tried your hand at the Koba........urk
x__x

 

[Kamdan]

Didn't appreciate how Abrams' Kirk played the Kobayashi Maru as if he was playing a video game in God mode. It didn't help that Uhura obviously knew the set-up and wasn't taking anything seriously. Can't imagine why someone would get an accommodation for making themselves indestructible.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't think anyone can really "fail" it, unless they break down crying on the bridge begging for someone to help them. The important thing is to see that the cadet stays in control, even in the face of certain death.

Exactly so.

The test is intentionally designed to make this happen, or at least try to. It throws up as many challenges as it can. The point is to MAKE the cadet break down and totally lose their shit. The only way the cadet can fail is if this happens.

If they act like Saavik or Kirk, where they fight back as best they can, even in the face of certain death, they pass.

I agree that's the basic point, but i don't think it's necessarily the only way to fail. For instance, if your actions reveal that you don't give a damn about civilian lives at all, that would be a failure. As would an attitude that amounted to thinking that your duty is to always charge in no matter the situation with no concern for the risks you're taking. Of course, one would hope these candidates would've been weeded out of the academy already, but you never know.

Also, candidates who honestly did make very bad mistakes, like not even trying to scan the area, or becoming obsessed with 'by the book' procedures to the point that they couldn't make their own decision may not come off looking too hot, even if they technically didn't 'fail'.

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

This entire plan assumes that you know ahead of time what will happen, even though the entire point of the test is that you DON'T know what will happen. And it would still be doomed to fail, since you can't possibly beam that many people out in the handful of seconds before the klingons open fire - and without shields, you're instantly dead.

 

[KaineMorrison]

I don't think anyone can really "fail" it, unless they break down crying on the bridge begging for someone to help them. The important thing is to see that the cadet stays in control, even in the face of certain death.

Exactly so.

The test is intentionally designed to make this happen, or at least try to. It throws up as many challenges as it can. The point is to MAKE the cadet break down and totally lose their shit. The only way the cadet can fail is if this happens.

If they act like Saavik or Kirk, where they fight back as best they can, even in the face of certain death, they pass.

I agree that's the basic point, but i don't think it's necessarily the only way to fail. For instance, if your actions reveal that you don't give a damn about civilian lives at all, that would be a failure. As would an attitude that amounted to thinking that your duty is to always charge in no matter the situation with no concern for the risks you're taking. Of course, one would hope these candidates would've been weeded out of the academy already, but you never know.

Also, candidates who honestly did make very bad mistakes, like not even trying to scan the area, or becoming obsessed with 'by the book' procedures to the point that they couldn't make their own decision may not come off looking too hot, even if they technically didn't 'fail'.

The test is winnable without cheating.
Stay at the very edge of the Neutral Zone.
Scan the ship for life-signs.
Life-Signs detected.
Have all hands stand by at each and every Transporter Room.
Very calculated Warp-2 jump and stop right next to the Maru.
As soon as the Ship stops, everyone is locking on and beaming survivors over.
Klingons decloak, still a few seconds before they charge up weapons to fire, you have your Crew lay down a full spread of repeated cover fire.
Last of the Maru are aboard, Warp-9 the f outta there, no lives lost on any of the Maru or your ship!

This entire plan assumes that you know ahead of time what will happen, even though the entire point of the test is that you DON'T know what will happen. And it would still be doomed to fail, since you can't possibly beam that many people out in the handful of seconds before the klingons open fire - and without shields, you're instantly dead.

Not entirely true. It would be the safe way to play it.
It could be done this way the 1st time or the 1000th time.
If the Captain is cautious and wary.

 

[Maurice]

This assumes that the events in the test always happen exactly the same. Any decent game logic will be programmed to look for different player strategies and counter them. Order all transporters to stand by = Klingon ships materialize in your path just short of transporter range. Manage to start beaming = Klingons get off a lucky shot and blow out your transporters and kill everyone being beamed, or ram you. Making a test that can't be beat is a trivial matter when you control all the variables.

 

[Push The Button]

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

nuKirk wasn't reprimanded, he was temporarily suspended while the Academy investigated what he did with the Kobayashi Maru test.

It's possible that in the prime universe, the same thing happened--except that it wasn't interrupted by a sudden emergency deployment to the Laurentian System. In the prime universe, the investigation was able to continue and it ultimately went in Kirk's favor, ending his suspension. Afterward, he was given the commendation for original thinking. In TWOK, a much older Kirk could be forgiven for leaving out the bit to Saavik that he had been temporarily suspended prior to being given the commendation, IMO.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. Yes, nuKirk was on academic suspension pending the investigation.

 

[varek]

I thought all cadets--especially those planning Command careers--were required to take that test.

Perhaps it is to remind them that they are not omniscient and infallible, to instill a bit of humility.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Not entirely true. It would be the safe way to play it.
It could be done this way the 1st time or the 1000th time.
If the Captain is cautious and wary.

I think the whole test is rigged so there is no way to win. No matter what you try, the computer will make sure you can't rescue anyone and/or die trying.

In other words, the computer cheats, that's why Kirk got a commendation for "original thinking" - he realized the only way to beat a cheating computer was for him to cheat also.