Who should the next rival of the Federation.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by EmoBorg, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Commodore Commodore

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    The United Federation of Planets, has over the years, had great rivals like the Klingons, Romulans, the Cardassians and the Borg.

    With relative peace with the Klingons, the Cardassians devastated by the Dominion Wars, the Romulans now without their home planet and the Borg affected by a neurolytic pathogen unleashed by Janway, which space faring civilzation, you think, can take on the mantle of being the Federation's next nemesis.

    The Breen ? Some other new race perhaps ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    25th Century, I assume? Probably a race or society from the Delta Quadrant. They seem like a pretty hostile bunch.

    EDIT: No. I take that back. @Vger23 has a much better answer. :devil:
     
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  4. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Commodore Commodore

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    That might be interesting. LaForge may still have nightmares about them :lol:.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  5. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Commodore Commodore

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    Delta Quadrant. Perhaps the Krenim Imperium or the Malons.
     
  6. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Krenim are better. They have the most potential. I would've said Species 8472 or the Hirogen but VOY kind of squandered them. But maybe another series could do more (and better) with them.

    So the Krenim, Species 8472, and the Hirogen would be my top three choices, if not someone new.

    That Malon in "Night", Emk (I think his name was?) reminds me too much of Danny DeVito. He's like The Penguin in Batman Returns. "Phah!!!!"
     
  7. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure about the 25th century, but I'm betting the Big Baddies of the 32nd century are...
    The Kelpians. And it's all thanks to Saru and the uprising he started.
     
  8. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One problem with your question is logic.

    Political and military rivals and enemies of a state, such as for example the USA, are not ethnic groups or nationalities like the Russians or the Iranians, for example, but states, such as the USSR, the Russian Federation, China, Iran, Germany during Nazi rule, for example.

    So rivals of the Untied Federation of Planets would be other unitary states or Federations, such as the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, the Cardassian Union, the Borg Collective, the Dominion, etc. Not species like the Klingons, or the Romulans (who are merely a group of Vulcans and not a species themselves), or the Cardassians, or the Borg, or the Changlings.

    If the United Federation of Planets rules one hundred highly advanced planets with populations in the billions, a state which would be a plausible rival for the Federation would also have to rule approximately one hundred approximately as highly advanced planets with populations in the billions.

    If the United Federation of Planets rules one thousand highly advanced planets with populations in the billions, a state which would be a plausible rival for the Federation would also have to rule approximately one thousand approximately as highly advanced planets with populations in the billions.

    If the United Federation of Planets rules ten thousand highly advanced planets with populations in the billions, a state which would be a plausible rival for the Federation would also have to rule approximately ten thousand approximately as highly advanced planets with populations in the billions.

    If the United Federation of Planets rules one hundred thousand highly advanced planets with populations in the billions, a state which would be a plausible rival for the Federation would also have to rule approximately one hundred thousand approximately as highly advanced planets with populations in the billions.

    If the United Federation of Planets rules one million highly advanced planets with populations in the billions, a state which would be a plausible rival for the Federation would also have to rule approximately one million approximately as highly advanced planets with populations in the billions.

    And so on and so on. The larger and more powerful the Federation is, the larger and more powerful a state would have to be to function as a plausible rival for the Federation.

    I suppose that it would be possible for a state that ruled one hundred highly advanced planets with populations in the billions on each planet to be populated only by members of a since species. In analogy with the term "nation state"", I call a single species state which interacts with other states in interstellar space a "species state". And if a species evolved on one home planet and colonized 99 other planets in other star systems those colony worlds should eventually build up their infrastructure and population until each colony world had as large a population and as much industry as the home world. So a species state with one hundred highly advanced planets with populations in the billions on each planet would be possible in real life, where nobody knows what percentage of habitable planets have native intelligent lifeforms. It is possible that only one habitable planet out of a thousand, or one out of a million, or one out of a billion,etc., has native intelligent life forms in real life.

    But planets with native intelligent life are seen to be very common in Star Trek. If a species expanded from their home star to one hundred other star systems with habitable planets they could colonies, and formed a species state ruling over those one hundred star systems, they would probably have to pass over a number of star systems with inhabited planets and leave those systems as enclaves in their space, if inhabited planets are as common as they are in Star Trek.

    And that would be even more so if the species state ruled two hundred planets, three hundred planets, four hundred planets, a thousand planets, or ten thousand planets, etc., etc. The larger an interstellar species state is, the more likely it will be to resemble a wheel of Swiss cheese, with many spherical holes where there are enclave systems with native intelligent life that aren't ruled by the species state.

    So how much larger could an interstellar government get? As you remember, I discussed an interstellar government with one hundred planets, or with one thousand planets, or with ten thousand planets, or with one hundred thousand planets, or with one million planets. Surely a interstellar government couldn't rule more than one million highly advanced planets.

    Our Milky Way galaxy has least about one hundred billion star systems in it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

    So if there might be billions of habitable planets in the Milky Way galaxy, there could be room for thousands of interstellar states that ruled one million habitable planets each. So if faster than light travel is possible, an interstellar state that eventually grows to rule much more than one million habitable planets might still rule much less than one percent of the Milky Way galaxy. And that is in the real Milky Way galaxy. But since habitable planets are so very much more common in the Milky Way Galaxy in Star Trek, interstellar states that rule a million habitable planets would rule much smaller fractions of a percent of the total Milky Way galaxy in Star Trek.

    And so I can't help expecting that any important state in Star Trek is likely to be a federation or empire ruling many planets with many different intelligent species instead of a species state ruling only planets inhabited by one single species.
     
  9. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Yuuzhan Vong.
     
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  10. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Those guys really get around.

    Kor
     
  11. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

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    The UFP - nothing like a civil war to shake things up
     
  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Those bug things that stick in your neck from “Conspiracy” need to make a comeback.
     
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  13. 1001001

    1001001 Battling Sex Ghosts Moderator

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    The Daleks!
     
  14. SJGardner

    SJGardner Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Gold-Shoulder Movement

    All the security officers go on a Federation-wide strike that completely cripples Starfleet because they're fed up with the latter's continued refusal to do anything about their criminally lax workplace safety conditions.
     
  15. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  16. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Okay, I get what you're saying without going into the minutiae of comparable polities. If we're taking the US as an example, we have to remember that the US has a defense strategy of far exceeding anyone else in the world when it comes to military readiness, expenditures, capabilities. The UFP and Starfleet may be comparable, or believed itself comparable, and this led to the situation before facing threats from the Borg Collective and the Dominion (both multi-species, sort of, with capability on s level unmatched by any other). Because they're our heroes, they managed to defeat these threats.

    But who are the "threats" the US faces today? Not Russia or China (publicly at least), but small groups. Al-Qaida. ISIS. Guerrilla fighters with no pretense of taking down the "rival government".

    So the next threat to the Federation shouldn't be the Krenim Imperium or the Concordant of Galaxies. But someone much smaller that can fight our heroes existentially, if not completely.
     
  17. Spock .

    Spock . Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I think it would be cool if one of the Federation's allies, such as the Vulcans, started attacking the Federation.
     
  18. Grendel's Brains

    Grendel's Brains Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always liked the idea of the Federation meeting a different sort of Federation. Someone that shares their multicultural/cosmopolitan/scientific values but rejects all those pesky Federation morals.

    The Dominion seemed kind of sort of like this at first but once the writers turned them into the all Vorta/Jem'Hadar/Changeling show (and made the rest of the Dominion all just subjects kept in line strictly by fear) they lost that aspect so there's still lots of potential ground to break here.
     
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  19. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Terra First. A long-thought backwater segment of Human society clinging to the remnants of the earlier Terra Prime movement that suddenly gains significant political power after one of their members secretly becomes the new President of the Federation. Although not at first, a Terra FIrst-pushed proposal for Earth's exit from the Federation begins to gain momentum...
     
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  20. ISS-Magnum

    ISS-Magnum Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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