Who Likes 'Relics'?
- Thread starter Chief Medical Officer
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Are you saying they should have lined up to get his autograph?
I agree.
I'm not, at all, opposed to crossovers, if the excuse for it isn't mentally challenged. For example, having Sarek and Spock in TNG makes perfect sense. They'd certainly be alive around that time and not having them on the show, at some point, doesn't make a lot of sense. But Scotty's introduction was so forced, as was his situation, throughout the whole episode. Scotty's something that climbed out of a tree, in the 24th Century, and the script just kind of leaves it at that. But Scotty's introduction could've lead up to so much more, for TNG. As an example, imagine him teaming up with Picard, in "Unification." What a profound episode, it would've ended up becoming. But no ... Scotty's just a dinosaur and that's all. So hand him his hat and boot him out the door, quick, and no excuses.
"Relics" doesn't work, but the idea of Jimmy Doohan in TNG starring as another character, or other characters, plural, is an interesting one, to me. I would've loved to have seen him painted blue, or some shit and trotted out as Guinan's assistant bartender, on occasion. Or whatever, who cares? I'm just saying that I wouldn't have been opposed to seeing Doohan more involved in STAR TREK, through TNG. He could've reinvented himself entirely and been quite versatile, with his voice talents and ability to do accents and make up alien languages. Offering him a Mercy Episode like "Relics" was embarrassing and unfair. TNG could've benefitted from Doohan's involvement and he was so desperate for employ, as it was, that I'm sure he'd have been agreeable to work with ...
"Relics" doesn't work, but the idea of Jimmy Doohan in TNG starring as another character, or other characters, plural, is an interesting one, to me. I would've loved to have seen him painted blue, or some shit and trotted out as Guinan's assistant bartender, on occasion. Or whatever, who cares? I'm just saying that I wouldn't have been opposed to seeing Doohan more involved in STAR TREK, through TNG. He could've reinvented himself entirely and been quite versatile, with his voice talents and ability to do accents and make up alien languages. Offering him a Mercy Episode like "Relics" was embarrassing and unfair. TNG could've benefitted from Doohan's involvement and he was so desperate for employ, as it was, that I'm sure he'd have been agreeable to work with ...
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Fuckin' right. He went on to create the transwarp beaming equation after that, outsmarting most of Starfleets finest "scientists" working on it since his time, which helped save the Kelvin Universe. He's saved two universes, so yeah, a little respect instead of treating him like shit would have been nice.
I liked the Dyson sphere parts of the episode, Scotty annoyed me to no end. "Boohoo, no one appreciates me", like he would have appreciated someone who missed several decades of technological advancement marching into his Engineering and acting like an expert.
The Dyson Sphere was so interesting and something we'd never seen in Star Trek before, I wanted to see more of it, they shoukd have created an A story around the sphere, instead they used it as a gigantic macguffin so Scotty could help save the day. "See, you're not useless, you can still use outdated ships as door wedges!" ... whatever.
The Dyson Sphere was so interesting and something we'd never seen in Star Trek before, I wanted to see more of it, they shoukd have created an A story around the sphere, instead they used it as a gigantic macguffin so Scotty could help save the day. "See, you're not useless, you can still use outdated ships as door wedges!" ... whatever.
Don't they give those out like candy? He probably could have stolen one and no one would notice.
Exactly the right question. Just because you know about a historic figure doesn't mean you feel reverence.
I work in marketing and design. As such, I'm knowledgeable about a lot of the science of design, and familiar with art and artists throughout history. And if Phidias -- the ancient Greek artist, sculptor, mathematician, architect, jack-of-all-trades -- appeared on my doorstep tomorrow, I might be fascinated to sit down and have a beer and talk about the golden ratio. But I wouldn't be star struck, falling all over myself, or calling the kids away from their activities to meet The Great Phidias. He's a name on a page; nothing more.
Similarly, I'm sure LaForge is familiar with whatever portions of Scotty's work survived to his time and were documented as being written by Scotty. I'm sure he knew about Scotty's cold engine start (maybe the technique got a whole paragraph in an Academy textbook), some other achievements, and perhaps even his participation in historic events. But in the end, he's a name on a page, no more -- and no less -- important than Phidias.
He was an old man, out of his time, out of his league....
Plus the "I feel old and useless and out of date" routine is so obvious and hackneyed. It's like an admission that they couldn't be bothered to think originally on this one... which maybe another example of Next Gen assuming it's superior.
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Doohan just wasn't playing Montgomery Scott after OS, though, so I don't even get any slight value out of seeing Scotty back. It's not just that he doesn't look the same, he doesn't come across as being that person with Scott's personality. Scotty had a grim, all-business aspect that is entirely gone from this person we see here.
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Doohan just wasn't playing Montgomery Scott after OS, though, so I don't even get any slight value out of seeing Scotty back. It's not just that he doesn't look the same, he doesn't come across as being that person with Scott's personality. Scotty had a grim, all-business aspect that is entirely gone from this person we see here.
I'm forced to agree that Jimmy Doohan did stop playing Scotty the same way, at all, after THE MOTION PICTURE. Look at how Scotty handles the Enterprise's refit problems in TMP, versus how he behaves with the "A's" issues in THE FINAL FRONTIER. It's NOT the same guy, from THE VOYAGE HOME, onward, certainly. In THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK, even, when informed by the Admiral that the ship's being decommissioned, he took it surprisingly sedate, compared to how TOS Scotty would. I can see Scotty, from the series, having his eyes get wide and taking on this whiny quality, while he starts working himself up, until Kirk has to stop him. But that's not what we got. Why this change ... I really wish I knew. I hated the scrappy Scotty, to be very honest, but it's who and how he was, so, I don't see any point in changing him. It's not like he was a one-off guest star. Maybe, he just stopped trying.
I can see it sounding like "over-thinking", but I just had an immediate, gut level impression that Scotty wasn't present in Relics, just as you had the opposite impression. The words about reasons for the impression came later.
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Some people say on message boards "Stop over-thinking and just enjoy". As if my natural response would be positive, if I just wouldn't pick things to pieces.
Taking the "nuts and bolts" out of the Excelsior is hardly a sedate move. "Up your shaft!" indeed.
A man gets older, and thinks differently.
He wanted to refit the Enterprise and was stymied by Starfleet, and in his mind given a "ceremonial" promotion to "Captain of Engineering" (a term used in one film and never again in the entire franchise) of ship he clearly disdained
"If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."
He probably felt his best days were behind him at that point.
Until his captain suggested a "wee" adventure to rescue Mr. Spock, and perhaps a way to feel his "second wind" again.
By the time of his trip on the Jenolen, he'd been through many more adventures, including going back in time to help "discover" transparent aluminum. He definitely was ready to retire.
"I just bought a boat."
But after his adventure with Geordi, a "third wind" struck.
The Norpin colonies was for retirement, but Scotty wasn't ready yet.
He wanted a "wee" bit more fun. And off he went in the Enterprise shuttlecraft!
Mind you, I can forgive that, since I assume this was an issue of lighting and the fact that TNG was filmed at a higher quality than TOS.They should've at least got TOS bridge in the holodeck right but the small piece they did build had the railings and stairs in the wrong place. Carpet color was probably off too.
View attachment 1336
Lighting may affect carpet color but has nothing to do with the railing and stairs being in the wrong place.
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