Who is really the most powerful DC superhero?

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, I never liked the idea of Flash being faster than Superman more that they're the same speed but, yeah I figured fatigue would limit Flash's ability but he wouldn't need more than a couple of minutes to subdue or incapacitate Batman, which is probably about two minutes more than he would need if he could tie up Batman in that amount of time.

But that's sort of The Flash's weakness. Because at that point it's a "then what?" It reminds me of the "How it should have ended" internet cartoon series where Batman and Superman are talking and Batman says he would have solved the problem at the end of "Superman The Movie" by tying Luthor up. Superman asks, "Then what? ... What about the missiles?" "Oh, I have a bat-missile device on my belt." "Dude, you use the excuse all of the time."

So with The Flash it's like okay he ties Batman up... Then what?

Batman will get out, or has to be let out at some point, The Flash also doesn't kill so.... Batman is tied up. What's next? Flash can't lift him and hang him from a pole, or move him to some place easily. So the Flash ties up Batman but that's going to hardly "defeat" Batman.

I wonder how the meetings in the JLA go.

"We have a bomb on a bus on the otherside of town!"
Flash: "I'll run there and tie the terrorists up!"
JLA: "Then what?"
Flash: "What?"
JLA: "What about the bomb?"
Flash: "Oh.... Well how about Superman comes with me and he can toss it and the empty bus into the sun?"
Superman: "Can't I just go there alone and take care of the bombers, the passengers, and the bus all by myself? Hell, I could've it done it like 10 times during this conversation."
Flash: " Why do you hate me?"

 

[Snaploud]

It depends how powered-up The Flash's brain has become...He could always stop by the library or (more likely) the FBI/CIA/etc. headquarters and read-up on bomb-defusing techniques.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yeah, I never liked the idea of Flash being faster than Superman more that they're the same speed but, yeah I figured fatigue would limit Flash's ability but he wouldn't need more than a couple of minutes to subdue or incapacitate Batman, which is probably about two minutes more than he would need if he could tie up Batman in that amount of time.

The Flash being faster than Superman is a good idea, because it makes Superman less God like. He's got a lot of powers, does he need to be the best in ALL of them?

And The Flash wouldn't need more than a couple of SECONDS to subdue Batman. He's the Flash. Blink of an eye sort of thing.

But that's sort of The Flash's weakness. Because at that point it's a "then what?"

Wouldn't that be true of Batman? So, he's subdued The Flash... then what? None of these heroes are planning on killing.... So...

The point is: in ANY fight, Batman is at a huge disadvantage next to anyone with a super power. And realistically, he would get his ass handed to him.

But, he doesn't because the plot and his reputation demands that he always "wins."

It reminds me of the "How it should have ended" internet cartoon series where Batman and Superman are talking and Batman says he would have solved the problem at the end of "Superman The Movie" by tying Luthor up. Superman asks, "Then what? ... What about the missiles?" "Oh, I have a bat-missile device on my belt." "Dude, you use the excuse all of the time."

So with The Flash it's like okay he ties Batman up... Then what?

Addressed above. Same thing for Bats.

Batman will get out, or has to be let out at some point, The Flash also doesn't kill so.... Batman is tied up. What's next? Flash can't lift him and hang him from a pole, or move him to some place easily. So the Flash ties up Batman but that's going to hardly "defeat" Batman.

Actually, the Flash can move him quite easily. And quickly. The Flash could drop him off in the Arctic in a blink of an eye.

But, again, it ALL applies to the Batman. The Flash will get out (he can vibrate his molecules), so then what? Unless one of them is willing to really HURT the other...

Let's put it this way: if there were no rules, The Flash would rip Batman's heart out before Bats could even DO anything.

I wonder how the meetings in the JLA go.

"We have a bomb on a bus on the otherside of town!"
Flash: "I'll run there and tie the terrorists up!"
JLA: "Then what?"
Flash: "What?"
JLA: "What about the bomb?"
Flash: "Oh.... Well how about Superman comes with me and he can toss it and the empty bus into the sun?"
Superman: "Can't I just go there alone and take care of the bombers, the passengers, and the bus all by myself? Hell, I could've it done it like 10 times during this conversation."
Flash: " Why do you hate me?"

Yeah, you've never read a Flash comic book, have you?

 

[Gojira]

Superman...shouldn't even be a question.

 

[Snaploud]

I'm also not sure the Flash even needs to get tired when fully tapped into the "speed force." That's pretty much up to the writers, though.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, you've never read a Flash comic book, have you?

Not really, as I said, he's not a character that really interests me because he has a limited power-set. He can move fast, sure, and that brings with it some advantages (I've got the New 52 "The Flash" #1 and I liked, and never though of, the idea he could vibrate really fast to avoid injury when falls from a great height.)

But "moving fast" never interested me enough to invest in the character or the comic much.

But, on reviewing your post, yeah, he could take Batman out pretty easily if he really tried and wanted to.

 

[Mr Silver]

But "moving fast" never interested me enough to invest in the character or the comic much.

Flash is more about just moving fast in modern comic adaptions. He can also think at super speed and this also makes him immune from most heroes with telepathic abilities. He can also back strikes with his speed, effectively giving him superhuman strength.

What about bringing Wonder Woman into the equation? She isn't as fast as the likes of Superman and Flash but she has much of the same abilities as Supes and even has some psionic abilities that would pose a risk to Superman.

The only thing that goes against Wonder Woman is the fact she isn't invulnerable in the conventional sense, although she is capable of recovering from pretty much everything.

 

[Trekker4747]

Eh, one Batarang to bind her wrists together and she'd be done. She's probably be the most "evenly matched" with Batman, though.

 

[Myasishchev]

It depends how powered-up The Flash's brain has become...He could always stop by the library or (more likely) the FBI/CIA/etc. headquarters and read-up on bomb-defusing techniques.

With hard copies this is sort of doable if you ignore friction, but it always bugged me when super-speedsters were shown to be ultra-fast database searchers, passcode breakers, essayists, and so forth. Forget the obvious security methods. USB can only support 500 keystrokes a second, if my sources are correct. Also the Internet isn't really designed around the information processing abilities of a Flash or Superman. Neither are monitors. Neither are, ultimately, computers themselves.

Of course if you get into the nitty-gritty, at reasonably high speeds fluorescent lights would leave you in the dark half the time, and at very high speeds the entire world would be perceived as very dim as your "shutter speed" increased. (Or unbearably bright if you take blushift into account, but I guess we can ignore that.)

Superspeed's pretty hellish really. Especially when it turns you into a porcupine man.

 

[Snaploud]

It depends how powered-up The Flash's brain has become...He could always stop by the library or (more likely) the FBI/CIA/etc. headquarters and read-up on bomb-defusing techniques.

With hard copies this is sort of doable if you ignore friction, but it always bugged me when super-speedsters were shown to be ultra-fast database searchers, passcode breakers, essayists, and so forth. Forget the obvious security methods. USB can only support 500 keystrokes a second, if my sources are correct. Also the Internet isn't really designed around the information processing abilities of a Flash or Superman. Neither are monitors. Neither are, ultimately, computers themselves.

Yeah, I was thinking that he would need to use hard-copies. That's why FBI/CIA headquarters would make the most sense (assuming he could get access). They're bound to have hard-copies of that sort of stuff. Though, I doubt the U.S. government would appreciate the security breach. He does work for the police, though, so I guess the bomb squad might have access to most of the hard-copies he would need.

 

[Mr Silver]

Wouldn't Captain Atom provide one hell of a challenge for Superman? IIRC, he's DC's version of Silver Surfer.

I still think that Wonder Woman could hold her own against Superman. I'm not keen on the character, but she definitely ranks among the more powerful heroes.

 

[Myasishchev]

It depends how powered-up The Flash's brain has become...He could always stop by the library or (more likely) the FBI/CIA/etc. headquarters and read-up on bomb-defusing techniques.

With hard copies this is sort of doable if you ignore friction, but it always bugged me when super-speedsters were shown to be ultra-fast database searchers, passcode breakers, essayists, and so forth. Forget the obvious security methods. USB can only support 500 keystrokes a second, if my sources are correct. Also the Internet isn't really designed around the information processing abilities of a Flash or Superman. Neither are monitors. Neither are, ultimately, computers themselves.

Yeah, I was thinking that he would need to use hard-copies. That's why FBI/CIA headquarters would make the most sense (assuming he could get access). They're bound to have hard-copies of that sort of stuff. Though, I doubt the U.S. government would appreciate the security breach.

It matters not. The Flash is a true god, beyond national security and human morality. I'm surprised he, Superman and Captain Marvel don't just rule the Earth as a beneficient triumvirate, leaving the broken bodies of Batpeople and Oan stooges as testament to their invisible greatness.

Actually I think this is the premise of Twilight of the Superheroes, except they all hate each other for vague reasons and Batman is still a factor because... I don't know, I'm sure Alan Moore came up with something that was at least passably convincing.

 

[Skellington]

Still think the Sandman could own the DC Universe if he wanted to. Heck, he could conquer that and the Marvel Universe simultaneously.

 

[Myasishchev]

Dream doesn't count. It's like asking who's stronger, Spider-Man or the Living Tribunal.

P.S.: is it a huge-ass plot hole that in 70 years, no member of the Endless even fucking tried to help Morpheus out of his predicament, when he got captured? I mean, Destiny sort of doesn't care, Desire would actively wish him harm, Despair would abide by what Desire wanted, Death may have been bound not to interfere by her own rules, but Destruction could just roll in and fuck up Burgess because he had no rules and Delirium would presumably have not wanted to see Morpheus caged and could do something about it. Hell, if nothing else you'd think Lucien or Mervyn or Fiddler's Green or somebody would consider DOING SOMETHING instead of dicking around for the better part of a century.

 

[Mr Silver]

Still think the Sandman could own the DC Universe if he wanted to. Heck, he could conquer that and the Marvel Universe simultaneously.

Not the Marvel Universe, especially when it contains superheroes with incredibly powerful telepathic abilities (and defences) and the likes of Silver Surfer who can alter the very essence of reality and not break a sweat.

One of the reasons that I prefer DC to Marvel is that their heroes (with the possible exception of Superman) aren't massively overpowered.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Wouldn't Captain Atom provide one hell of a challenge for Superman? IIRC, he's DC's version of Silver Surfer.

Not really. Other than being silver, there isn't much similarity.

Superspeed's pretty hellish really. Especially when it turns you into a porcupine man.

lol I remember that issue.

 

[Trekker4747]

What about when it turns you into a salamander?

 

[Snaploud]

What about when it turns you into a salamander?

You never talk about it again. EVER.

 

[the G-man]

The whole Batman Vs Superman things is funny to me because it makes Superman out to be a moron...which he isn't...I always thought Supes was an intelligent guy...and given his abilities...

Yeah, the "Superman is stupid" trope began with Frank Miller because it served a purpose in what was ultimately an "Elseworlds" story and lesser talents ran with it over the past 25 years.

 

[the G-man]

Dream doesn't count. It's like asking who's stronger, Spider-Man or the Living Tribunal.

P.S.: is it a huge-ass plot hole that in 70 years, no member of the Endless even fucking tried to help Morpheus out of his predicament, when he got captured? I mean, Destiny sort of doesn't care, Desire would actively wish him harm, Despair would abide by what Desire wanted, Death may have been bound not to interfere by her own rules, but Destruction could just roll in and fuck up Burgess because he had no rules and Delirium would presumably have not wanted to see Morpheus caged and could do something about it. Hell, if nothing else you'd think Lucien or Mervyn or Fiddler's Green or somebody would consider DOING SOMETHING instead of dicking around for the better part of a century.

Delirum was too fucked up to do anything proactive and Destruction had "quit." The others you pretty much explained.