Who is in charge of the shuttlebay?

[Tim Thomason]

Doesn't matter how well known he might or might not have been (Kurland was actually training for the Academy Entrance Exam). According to onscreen dialogue, he still entered the shuttlebay without authorization. A case could be made that the only time Kurland was supposed to be in the shuttlebay was during his scheduled training.

Some quotes from the episode:

REMMICK: Very original, Captain. But how did that child acquire access to a shuttlecraft?
RIKER: Kurland is a highly qualified Enterprise Academy candidate, fully trained in many areas including shuttles.

...that really doesn't answer the Inspector General's question, Will. I hope someone, other than Jake, got in trouble for that incident. But we also learn this tidbit earlier:

TASHA: Captain, there's an unauthorized entry in main Shuttlebay.
REMMICK: Unauthorized?
PICARD: Who is it, Lieutenant?
TASHA: Computer reads the ID number of Jake Kurland. Bridge to main Shuttlebay. Mister Kurland, this is Lieutenant Yar. Respond.
REMMICK: Isn't the area secured?
RIKER: Not now, Remmick. He's going to take this out, Captain.
TASHA: I'm locking off the bay launch doors, Captain.
WORF: Too late. He's using the flight emergency override.
LA FORGE: Smart kid.
REMMICK: Kid?
TASHA: He's launching.

So, I'd gather that Jake had a dedicated ID number that gave him complete access to the shuttlebay and was also taught how to use the "flight emergency override." Possibly as a fully-trained backup, civilian pilot in case of emergencies.

In my head, Jake used his ID to gain access to his shuttlecraft, maybe non-chalantly whistling past the shuttle officers with an excuse of "Oh, I'm just checking out the Copernicus for my scheduled training course tomorrow." Then once, inside his shuttle, he activated the flight emergency override, which allows him to cut-off bridge access to the main shuttlebay doors (this may also be the point where the ship or a shuttle officer recorded the unauthorized entry).

I could see that override being necessary in an emergency if hostile forces have commandeered the ship/shuttlebay, or if some computer malfunction have messed with the bridge/shuttlebay controls (but not with the override controls).

 

[Timo]

"Waltzing in and keeping one's cool" still remains the likeliest way to steal a shuttle. Issues like authorization always come to play way too late - literally seconds before the shuttle already clears the bay doors. The actual boarding of the craft must have taken place much earlier, without raising any flags.

But Remmick seems to be stating rather clearly that regulations call for the bays to be "secured", and we have no real reason to think the various Enterprises blatantly disregard regulations there. Nor do we have to think everything is remote-controlled from the bridge, especially aboard Kirk's ship where there is always a man on the loop, even for firing the main phasers. The bridge officers just issue orders, sometimes verbally, often through keypresses - but there's wetware down there to translate that to action, and no evidence said wetware would be located off the actual areas in question.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Doesn't matter how well known he might or might not have been (Kurland was actually training for the Academy Entrance Exam). According to onscreen dialogue, he still entered the shuttlebay without authorization. A case could be made that the only time Kurland was supposed to be in the shuttlebay was during his scheduled training.

Some quotes from the episode:

REMMICK: Very original, Captain. But how did that child acquire access to a shuttlecraft?
RIKER: Kurland is a highly qualified Enterprise Academy candidate, fully trained in many areas including shuttles.

...that really doesn't answer the Inspector General's question, Will. I hope someone, other than Jake, got in trouble for that incident. But we also learn this tidbit earlier:

TASHA: Captain, there's an unauthorized entry in main Shuttlebay.
REMMICK: Unauthorized?
PICARD: Who is it, Lieutenant?
TASHA: Computer reads the ID number of Jake Kurland. Bridge to main Shuttlebay. Mister Kurland, this is Lieutenant Yar. Respond.
REMMICK: Isn't the area secured?
RIKER: Not now, Remmick. He's going to take this out, Captain.
TASHA: I'm locking off the bay launch doors, Captain.
WORF: Too late. He's using the flight emergency override.
LA FORGE: Smart kid.
REMMICK: Kid?
TASHA: He's launching.

So, I'd gather that Jake had a dedicated ID number that gave him complete access to the shuttlebay and was also taught how to use the "flight emergency override." Possibly as a fully-trained backup, civilian pilot in case of emergencies.

Or he could just have been a clever kid training for the Academy Entrance Exam and that his ID number is nothing more than standard identification. It doesn't preclude Kurland from being a pilot or pilot trainee, however, but it wouldn't necessarily give him the right to waltz in the shuttlebay and take out a shuttle whenever he just felt like it, no questions asked. I doubt even any actual officer or crewman could do that unless it was planned.

 

[Phantom]

Well, I think that the best model would be to look to the real navy, since shuttlebay operations are for all intents and purposes the same as the Flight Deck/Hangar operations of an aircraft carrier

Also known as the air boss, the air officer (along with his assistant, the miniboss) is responsible for all aspects of operations involving aircraft including the hangar deck, the flight deck, and airborne aircraft out to 5 nautical miles (9.3 km; 5.8 mi) from the carrier. From his perch in Primary Flight Control (PriFly, or the "tower"), he and his assistant maintain visual control of all aircraft operating in the carrier control zone (surface to and including 2,500 feet (760 m), within a circular limit defined by 5 nautical miles (9.3 km; 5.8 mi) horizontal radius from the carrier), and aircraft desiring to operate within the control zone must obtain his approval prior to entry.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations

Now I'm sure the terminology is not quite the same, call the Air Boss the Flight Deck Control Officer, or whatever, but functionally it would be the same.

And just because we don't see all the things that go on within that part of the ship is no reason to assume the area is vacated. There's always something needing to be done: servicing shuttlecraft, "check flights" (checking the mechanical condition of the "birds", "certification flights" (maintaining pilot proficiency ratings), etc.

Speaking of shuttlebays, here's an amazing look inside the E-D's Main Shuttlebay, including an approach and landing at the beginning. The layout of the interior looks to be from Sternbach's Deckplans, or maybe Ed Whitefire's (I'm betting the former however).

As a bonus, the "tour" also shows us a bit of the ship not often seen, such as the crew lounges on Deck's 2 and 3 and the back way up to the Bride, as well as the Head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK9ijZeHWjI

 

[drt]

Maybe more like how the Navy conducts helicopter operations on a modern destroyer. It's more of a secondary operation there, and might be a better analogy.

 

[J.T.B.]

Well, I think that the best model would be to look to the real navy, since shuttlebay operations are for all intents and purposes the same as the Flight Deck/Hangar operations of an aircraft carrier

Well, maybe not a carrier. Aviation is a completely different in operating environment, technology, community of personnel etc. from the surface navy. Shuttles are more comparable to ships' boats, and the bay maybe more like the well deck of an amphibious assault ship, which falls under the ship's First Lieutenant and the Deck Department.

 

[BK613]

^^ Decent assessment about the well deck. Though the idea of a Navy-esque "air wing detachment" would make for a good explanation for no shuttles in The Enemy Within.

 

[Phantom]

I respectfully disagree. The flight deck of a carrier is indeed the better model. Every activity required on a carrier flight deck has it's shuttlebay analogue. And ships like Akiras which basically do function as carriers are said to embark fighter wings, which would be a direct equivalency.

 

[J.T.B.]

^^ Decent assessment about the well deck. Though the idea of a Navy-esque "air wing detachment" would make for a good explanation for no shuttles in The Enemy Within.

As if Enterprise had "sailed" without her shuttle detachment? Interesting idea, though it seems rather careless! From what we've seen it would still be somewhat different from the way the Navy does it, where a helo or LCAC detachment "owns" those craft and crews them; the captain or XO can't just take them out for a ride.

I respectfully disagree. The flight deck of a carrier is indeed the better model. Every activity required on a carrier flight deck has it's shuttlebay analogue.

Not really. Operating aircraft is the primary function of a carrier, the way it carries out its mission, and they do it constantly, day in, day out. The ship is designed and optimized solely to support flight deck operations. They operate a larger number and more varied types of aircraft than a starship does shuttles. Most active aircraft are parked on deck and are constantly shuffled around, as well as being armed and fueled on deck. Carrier aircraft perform missions in groups and are launched and recovered with very short intervals. The fixed-wing aircraft have to be catapulted to launch and arrested to land. It's like a small but very busy airport at sea. In other words, very little like the shuttlebays seen in Trek, except that the shuttle takes off from the ship and returns.

The closest real world comparison is probably ship's boats of the mid-to-late 1800s navies, especially British cruisers on colonial patrol. These boats and small crews would often be dispatched on fairly long missions to carry messages, patrol rivers, evacuate settlers etc., aside from their routine uses in harbor and between ships.

And ships like Akiras which basically do function as carriers are said to embark fighter wings, which would be a direct equivalency.

Maybe so, but how they operate has yet to be seen.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Actually, wouldn't it be easier to steal shuttles if the shuttlebay was not normally controlled from the bridge, but was run by dedicated personnel?

They can't be dedicated given how easily it is for anyone to steal a shuttle.

OBLIGATORY PANICKED GUEST-STAR: I'm taking a shuttlecraft. You can't stop me.

SHUTTLEBAY MANAGER: Help yourself. I don't care.

Shuttlebay Manager: "Who are you???"

Suspcious Man: "Oh, me? I'm an obviously suspicious non-personal man in a restricted area."

Shuttlebay Manager: "How'd you get in h--"

Karate chop to the neck.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The shuttlebay personnel may be out of sight, out of mind on the show, but if they've got people routinely manning transporter rooms, I'm sure they've got them in shuttlebays as well.

 

[T'Girl]

Operating aircraft is the primary function of a carrier

While operating shuttles isn't the primary function of the starships we've seen on the different series. The shuttle are used on occasion, and it would be easy to imagine the shuttle not seeing the light of day for months on end. They just sit parked.

So less a aircraft carrier, and more a destroyer that has the capacity for air operations, but in terms of it's primary duties, the air ops are well down the list.

 

[The Wormhole]

And ships like Akiras which basically do function as carriers are said to embark fighter wings, which would be a direct equivalency.

Maybe so, but how they operate has yet to be seen.

It should also be noted the idea of the Akira being a carrier is not canon. That is, it's never been seeing operating as a carrier on screen, and the Akira class is one Trek ship which has been seen extensively in combat. Hell even the novels, which have featured a number of Akira class ships over the years and a significant portion of a DS9 novel even takes place aboard one don't identify them as carriers.

I believe the idea comes from the folks who designed it and the other ships introduced in First Contact, but that don't make it canon.

 

[Phantom]

I respectfully disagree. The flight deck of a carrier is indeed the better model. Every activity required on a carrier flight deck has it's shuttlebay analogue.

Not really. Operating aircraft is the primary function of a carrier, the way it carries out its mission, and they do it constantly, day in, day out. The ship is designed and optimized solely to support flight deck operations.

So is the shuttlebay.

They operate a larger number and more varied types of aircraft than a starship does shuttles.

Runabouts, shuttlepods, personnel shuttles, workpods, cargo shuttles (which is the one thing they left out), and on some ships, actual fighters.

Most active aircraft are parked on deck and are constantly shuffled around,

Which we saw in the video.

as well as being armed and fueled on deck.

Though they didn't show it here, it's where such would be done.

Carrier aircraft perform missions in groups and are launched and recovered with very short intervals.

Sometimes, and sometimes as small a "group" as a single fighter. And mission durations can vary, depending on what is done.

The fixed-wing aircraft have to be catapulted to launch and arrested to land.

Not always catapulted. Catapulting didn't become necessary until the jet age, because the high speeds needed to lift such heavy aircraft were not possible w/o the cats.

It's like a small but very busy airport at sea. In other words, very little like the shuttlebays seen in Trek, except that the shuttle takes off from the ship and returns.

Keeping in mind that this video does have it's limitations (mostly due to the constraints of rendering), everything you mention is either shown or implied in the video. The shuttlebay is seen as a very busy place with launches, craft maneuvering, maintenance areas, launches and recoveries, etc.

Just because the show didn't always depict everything that was going on doesn't mean that things weren't going on. The "real" shuttlebay would be even busier than this video, with all sorts of work being done.

Operating aircraft is the primary function of a carrier

While operating shuttles isn't the primary function of the starships we've seen on the different series. The shuttle are used on occasion, and it would be easy to imagine the shuttle not seeing the light of day for months on end. They just sit parked.

Not at all. Craft have to be regularly inspected and maintained. Check flights have to be performed to test their readiness. Pilots have to log a certain amount of "flight time" to maintain their proficiency (and deck crew have to do their jobs on a regular basis for the same reason).

Just because the shows didn't have the budget to show us extensive use of shuttlecraft doesn't mean that the "real" Starfleet wouldn't use every asset on hand to get whatever they needed done. It is not hard at all to consider that a starship in planetary orbit doing a survey would be surrounded by a cloud of coming and going shuttles doing various tasks.

 

[Phantom]

consolidated post.

 

[T'Girl]

The ship is designed and optimized solely to support flight deck operations.

So is the shuttlebay.

But not the ship itself.

 

[Timo]

I doubt even any actual officer or crewman could do that unless it was planned.

We have heard of the existence of "flight plans" once, but whether that's standard or a nice-to-have, after-the-fact feature, we don't know. We do see officers just jumping into shuttles without any mention of preparation often enough, but that's no guarantee there wasn't unmentioned preparation beforehand.

However, we also know that officers can and will use the transporter to depart the ship completely without clearance or other such bureaucratic nonsense. Even then craziest transporter procedures only require the officer in question to refer to his or her superior rank, and the transporter operator immediately yields (say, "Realm of Fear") without contacting the bridge for a doubly-signed permit with three official stamps.

In the 24th century, both transporters and shuttles might be rather maintenance-light technologies that have left entire legions of professionals unemployed. That the episodes and movies fail to show complications in their use could very well be taken at face value!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

However, we also know that officers can and will use the transporter to depart the ship completely without clearance or other such bureaucratic nonsense.

And were noted as such.

 

[Phantom]

Espaco-chcia:

Phantom wrote:
J.T.B. wrote:
The ship is designed and optimized solely to support flight deck operations.

So is the shuttlebay.

But not the ship itself.

Which doesn't mean that the shuttlebay complex doesn't work the same way, regardless of how the rest of the ship is organized. It conducts all the same functions as a carrier's flight-deck an hangar: craft storage, maintenance, arming, fueling, launch and recovery operations, etc.

 

[Timo]

And were noted as such.

What does that mean?

Basically all the TNG heroes helped themselves to a transporter at some point. There was no procedure in place to make an event out of this. Quite to the contrary, when the other heroes wondered about the whereabouts of the departed beloved, all the computer could do was to helplessly shrug "X is no longer aboard the Enterprise".

Sure, a log probably existed for recreating every step of the character's departure, from his or her transporter use all the way back to him or her closing the cabin door behind him or her. But "waltzing in" was still the way the system operated: absolutely no flags would be raised by casual use of the technology.

The only difference in shuttle ops vs. transporters seems to be that opening the outer bay doors triggers a bridge alert. That is, it sends a signal to the bridge, and for some reason this is treated as an alert (the same way Worf treats certain incoming messages as alerts even though they sound really innocuous as such).

I rather suspect the ship sees far more shuttle activity than these plot-relevant departures, and Worf or Data is always informing Picard of shuttlecraft departures and arrivals - such informing is not an "alert", and the characters only become agitated if there's something particularly irregular relating to the event. This still doesn't mean it would be difficult for a random officer to launch in a shuttle unannounced, as the irregularities ("this guy/gal is stark raving mad and relieved of duty" or "he/she said he/she would go to the holodeck!") tend to be discernible to the bridge heroes only.

Timo Saloniemi