I just thought Askwith was supposed to be a MACO and they either forgot or were unable to give the actor a MACO uniform to wear.
Who did the MACOs fight?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I just thought Askwith was supposed to be a MACO and they either forgot or were unable to give the actor a MACO uniform to wear.
It would be interesting to see how they were described in the script. Anyone have a copy to check? (This would be "The Forge.")
For whatever it's worth, Memory Alpha does say Corporal Askwith was in Starfleet, anyway. Of course, they also call him an officer, despite Corporal not being an officer's rank.
A police officer by function, perhaps? In the UFP, Starfleet does a lot of policing. Does a separate civilian police force exist in the United Earth? In "Demons", Minister Samuel offers "Starfleet investigators" as the non-hero solution to the apparent crime committed on Earth against a civilian...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Good question. In DS9, Starfleet actually did take care of law enforcement on Earth, yet in Trek XI Kirk was being chased by a civilian police hoverbike.
That's actually not worth very much in itself. Memory Alpha is a great resource, but it's ultimately simply a collection of user-generated content. It's full of mistakes just waiting to be spotted and corrected. There have been a number of occasions where I've quoted or had quoted to me a "fact" or date from MA, only to find when I actually checked the episode (or transcript, and I've found errors in those, too) for myself that it was not in fact accurate to what was shown and said therein. People make mistakes, jump to conclusions. The various editions of the Okudas' Chronology and Encyclopedia (again, while wonderful to have for reference) were also peppered with errors and dubious assumptions. The official website has had mistakes as well. And yes, the episodes themselves sometimes contain mistakes!
Askwith is never identified as a Starfleet officer in the dialogue of "The Forge." He is assumed to be one on the basis of appearance. And that is not a strange or unreasonable assumption to make. But the "United Earth Diplomatic Corps" shoulder patches combined with the non-Starfleet rank make me suspect there could be more to the story than "United Earth embassies are guarded by Starfleet personnel." Which is why I would be interested to know what if any additional details there might be in the script to guide interpretation of what's seen in the episode.
Speaking purely hypothetically to illustrate a point, it's entirely possible that, as @Mr. Laser Beam posits, Askwith and his fellows were described as MACOs in the script. Maybe someone raised the (possibly spurious) issue of the MACOs being confined to Earth before joining Archer, causing a perceived need to hastily change their affiliation, and the best the costume department could do at that point was slap UEDC patches on some SF uniforms. It's equally possible that they were described in the script as Starfleet, and someone raised the (possibly spurious) issue of SF being an agency of exploration rather than a military force, leading to the same effect. Or maybe they were non-descript "Embassy security personnel" in the script and the costume department had to make its own call as to how to handle them. Maybe a variation on one of these, or some other scenario. The Reeves-Stevenses or Mike Sussman might be able to tell us more about what went on behind the scenes.
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With all this evidence of Corporal Askwith and the UEDC wearing "Starfleet" jumpsuits, makes me think that the jumpsuits are really only indicative of a parent organization (the "United Earth Uniformed Forces"), which would include Starfleet, the Diplomatic Corps, and maybe also UESPA and the MACOs themselves (presumably as an alternative to MACO camouflage).
Maybe Australia was run by a facist dictatorship, anything can happen in 100 years.
I'm aware of the pros and cons of Memory Alpha. Still, if someone like Simon Pegg used it as a reference guide while writing Beyond, then clearly someone in a position that matters in the Trek hierarchy is trusting the site as fact.
Didn't we meet police officers investigating Phlox's kidnapping in "Affliction"?
The investigation was led by one Commander Collins, who said she came from Starfleet Security. Her underlings appeared to be Starfleet redshirts, or at least wearing jackets with the familiar red stripes.
Might have to do with Phlox being an alien and all. Also, when Minister Samuels says Starfleet should investigate the death of Susan Khouri, an Earth civilian, he may already have an inkling of this really being a "space crime".
Intriguingly, his/its badge, while traditionally shaped like the shield of a knight, features a further shape inside that looks like a squatter version of the Starfleet upward arrowhead.
AFAIK, there were no Federation cops of any sort in DS9, save for this Temporal Investigations bunch. But Starfleet was the organization doing the blood screenings and the riot control in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost", and chasing the Maquis in VOY "Non Sequitur" (admittedly in a parallel universe).
Law enforcement aboard DS9 was a clear-cut issue originally, with Odo doing it all (although it was quite unclear whether he was doing it in the name of the Bajoran law, the Federation law, or just his own sense of justice/prejudice). When Worf came aboard, he tried to dabble in that, too. While that got him into trouble aboard the station, in "Let He Who is Without Sin", he took on law enforcement duties on a Federation world, with local cops nowhere to be seen.
It's not so much a case of Starfleet doing all the police work, though, as it is one of no other police organization ever being seen doing it.
Timo Saloniemi
In the season 7 premiere when Sisko is stabbed by a Bajoran Pah-Wraith cultist on Earth, it's Starfleet who apprehends and holds him in custody. Some have suggested over the years that Starfleet operates similar to the US military where civilians who commit crimes against military personnel, even when they're off duty or on leave (like Sisko was) still face military justice. Thing is, even in those situations, the perpetrator is usually apprehended by civilian authorities who then transfer them over to the military.
The implication there though is Risa doesn't believe in law enforcement. Earlier in that episode when the terrorist guy puts on his demonstration, threatening everyone with non-functioning phaser rifles, Dax informs him "as a Starfleet officer I have the authority to arrest you." The guy responds "That would be a waste of time, the Risans don't prosecute."
Actually, I'm not sure Starfleet was involved in the investigation into Sisko's stabbing at all. All Sisko says is that he had to give a report to Starfleet Security after the stabbing - for all we know on a matter completely unrelated to the stabbing. He's on a mysterious leave of absence on Earth, after all: at some point, he would have to explain himself to Starfleet. An obvious point would be when he gets entered into the public record, as a patient and a victim of crime.
However, we certainly don't see any civilian police action here, either.
Timo Saloniemi
However, we certainly don't see any civilian police action here, either.
Timo Saloniemi
Even on Bajor itself, law enforcement seems to be handled by the Bajoran Militia's security personnel. EG, in the final arc, after Dukat killed Kai Winn's assistant and she decides to cover it up by officially reporting him as missing, she makes the report to a Militia security officer.
Or the jumpsuits are just generic jumpsuits (off the rack at Walmart) and aren't any kind of "uniform."
IIRC, day-to-day law enforcement on Bajor is indeed handled by a branch of the Militia. It's called the "City Watch".
Then again, given that Bajoran society was left in shambles by the Cardassian occupation, they probably don't have a lot of options anyway. What little civil order exists on Bajor at all, is probably due to the Miliitia's efforts as much as anything else.
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