Bah. Generations is an abomination, and I will speak of it no more.
Who did Kirk inherit from Pike's crew
- Thread starter DarrenTR1970
- Start date
I read somewhere that Kelley had stomach cancer and the studios couldn't afford the insurance for him..
I'm also thinking maybe Nimoy influenced Keeley but I'm not sure where that came from.Maybe thats the cameo thing.
I heard Nimoy at a convention in 2009 and he was joking around with Shatner saying if he was in the movie Kirk wouldn't have died. While they maybe have been playing it up to the audience there was probably a bit of truth there. Can you imagine Spock especially movie Spock for one thing letting Kirk risk his life no matter if Kirk ordered him or not and even if he did get lost in the Nexus Spock not tracking him down in the Nexus and getting him out of there.
I believe that if Nimoy had directed the movie Kirk wouldn't have died or at least if he did it would have been in a spectacular, meaningful way.
I believe it's pretty well-established, per multiple reports (about four or five of which I read just now), that Kelley could not get on-set insurance as required by Guild rules, so he couldn't appear. Interestingly he lived another five years; I hope he didn't suffer too much.
I've never heard anything about Nimoy influencing Kelley against appearing. It sounds as though he really wanted to do so, and moreover, I don't think Nimoy was, by 1994, really all about rallying others to his personal causes.
I think there's a lot of truth in that. In my head canon, when Spock heard about Kirk's "death," he immediately went to the region of space where he was lost and found a way to pull him out of the Nexus. The guy that Picard met there was just Kirk's echo. Honestly, anything else seems out of character to me.
Nimoy said that he would not have come aboard as the director for GEN unless the story was substantially rewritten. But Rick Berman was happy with the story as is, and said that there wasn't time to do the sort of restructuring that Nimoy was talking about. (I guess they already had a release date set by that point.) Nimoy just said, "Well, I wish you'd come to me sooner, then" and let that ship sail without him.
I suppose it was just Rick Berman's TV mentality running up against Nimoy's feature film sensibility. Berman was very used to be the one running the show, and probably just considered the directors hired hands, people who came in after the story was set. Nimoy was used to being involved in his film projects from the ground up and helping shape the story. I doubt that Berman would have been willing to give up enough control to satisfy Nimoy at that point.
Damn. I'd never heard that before. I guess what I'd heard about Kelley turning the movie down for creative reasons was just a convenient cover story to maintain his privacy. That's a shame.
Do you have links to any of the sources, @Phaser Two? I'd be interested in reading them myself.
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So Berman was happy with the script. Interesting.
Yet after the complaints he got about Kirk's death he said he didn't have time, he got confused between GEN and "And All Good Things".... it wasn't his fault.
Yet after the complaints he got about Kirk's death he said he didn't have time, he got confused between GEN and "And All Good Things".... it wasn't his fault.
Maybe it wasn't that he was happy with the script so much as he was happy that it was under budget and on time.
It was pretty evident when suddenly Chekov heads to sickbay lol
As to the topic. I like the idea that Kirk inherits most of Pike's crew. If Spock is still there, it points to not much maybe being upset, except Pike's #1 leaving & possibly vacating the position for Spock to assume. As for the rest of the bridge crew, Kirk might've just toyed with who he preferred on the bridge. Sulu didn't land at helm right away, & Chekov was a long time coming, & as per TWOK, apparently on board during Space Seed. So maybe all these people have been there all along
I do think McCoy probably came on with Kirk, maybe even as a personal preference. They just seem like they're tight like that, right off the bat, as did Pike & his CMO. So maybe when Pike left, old Dr. Boyce felt it was time to move on & Kirk brought in a friend, but other than that, the main change happening is one of command. The ship & crew itself wouldn't really need a buttload of reassignments. Captain, XO & CMO
DSC will soon tell us more about Pike's post- "The Cage" crew, but I could foresee changes there. Pike seemed to have quite a junior team, with a Lieutenant as XO - many of the youngsters might be eager to move forward after proving themselves as starship material this early on.
OTOH, Boyce was quite the veteran. Ready to retire, despite ridiculing young Pike for intent of same? Or the Person Most Likely to Cling On to Pike (after the impressionable, loyal, father-figure-seeking Spock, of course)?
I could well see nobody but Spock remaining from "The Cage" for Kirk to choose from. But basically all of the "Where No Man" crew could be from Pike's most recent. (Or then picked from Starfleet' Most Expendable for the no-return mission beyond the Barrier, while Pike's team fled like so many rats...)
Timo Saloniemi
OTOH, Boyce was quite the veteran. Ready to retire, despite ridiculing young Pike for intent of same? Or the Person Most Likely to Cling On to Pike (after the impressionable, loyal, father-figure-seeking Spock, of course)?
I could well see nobody but Spock remaining from "The Cage" for Kirk to choose from. But basically all of the "Where No Man" crew could be from Pike's most recent. (Or then picked from Starfleet' Most Expendable for the no-return mission beyond the Barrier, while Pike's team fled like so many rats...)
Timo Saloniemi
How does Dr. Piper fit in? McCoy did not come on the same time Kirk did.
As of this most recent rewatch I'm open to the idea Number One received a new assignment when Pike moved on. She didn't get the Enterprise, but maybe some other command. Perhaps even prior to Pike moving on and that explains why she didn't get Enterprise.
As of this most recent rewatch I'm open to the idea Number One received a new assignment when Pike moved on. She didn't get the Enterprise, but maybe some other command. Perhaps even prior to Pike moving on and that explains why she didn't get Enterprise.
Don't forget that Pike referred to Number One as the ship's "most experienced officer," though. John Byrne came up with the explanation in his Crew miniseries that Number One refused most promotions offered to her to keep her rank as low as possible. It allowed her to be where the action was.
Would a Starfleet officer have such an option without being discharged?
Well, I don't. Everybody else wears even less braid than she does, so...
(Heck, Pike himself wears the same braid as his XO, the braid that in all other Trek contexts means Lieutenant. He might have been quite junior a skipper back then! Helps explain why a minor setback involving one redshirt death sends him to an abyss of self-doubt.)
IMHO we should be delighted to see somebody of lower rank command a ship with mere 200 crew and a milk run mission.
Timo
You could almost compare NuKirk in Beyond with Pike from "The Cage".
Though they're disillusioned/mid-life crisising for different reasons (Kirk's "this is becoming episodic routine, what am I doing, what's the point, maybe I'll become a desk job admiral" vs Pike's "am I really fit to lead/aftermath of tragic deaths/maybe I should do something else"), they both have a change of heart and go back to their job with a new sense of purpose.
Though they're disillusioned/mid-life crisising for different reasons (Kirk's "this is becoming episodic routine, what am I doing, what's the point, maybe I'll become a desk job admiral" vs Pike's "am I really fit to lead/aftermath of tragic deaths/maybe I should do something else"), they both have a change of heart and go back to their job with a new sense of purpose.
Worked for Riker for 7 years or more.
Oh jeeze, another Starfleet underachieving success story. Maybe someone will write a book that explains how the organization continues to function with high-ability people refusing higher responsibility and the upper ranks filled by officers who are corrupt, incompetent or both!
I would think that there would have been a mix of old and new as a transition took place. Clearly Spock was a holdover. Despite the ST09 movie, in the prime universe, I could see Kirk meeting Spock for the first time on the Enterprise. Spock, having served on the Enterprise a good decade, likely had the respect of the crew and Starfleet, and it's very possible that Kirk, assuming this was his first true command, would have been assigned Spock as his first officer.
It may be possible there was another science officer that served on the crew, new or old, but one day, while wearing a red shirt off duty, he was killed.
Spock of course would do double duty.
As McCoy was not on the ship in Where No Man, and seemed to have a fairly good relationship with Kirk, I could see McCoy getting on board per Kirk's request.
All of this is speculation, but it feels right.
Scotty I could see as someone who was on board during Pike's time, with some loyalty to him, and skeptical of a hot shot young captain at first, though I could see Kirk winning him over, and once that happened, Kirk had a friend for life.
I could see Scotty becoming the Chief Engineer either at the time Kirk took over, or just before, as the prior one left the ship when Pike did.
As for Sulu, Chekov and Uhura--MAYBE Uhura made it to the ship before Kirk, though arguably not likely.
It may be possible there was another science officer that served on the crew, new or old, but one day, while wearing a red shirt off duty, he was killed.
Spock of course would do double duty.
As McCoy was not on the ship in Where No Man, and seemed to have a fairly good relationship with Kirk, I could see McCoy getting on board per Kirk's request.
All of this is speculation, but it feels right.
Scotty I could see as someone who was on board during Pike's time, with some loyalty to him, and skeptical of a hot shot young captain at first, though I could see Kirk winning him over, and once that happened, Kirk had a friend for life.
I could see Scotty becoming the Chief Engineer either at the time Kirk took over, or just before, as the prior one left the ship when Pike did.
As for Sulu, Chekov and Uhura--MAYBE Uhura made it to the ship before Kirk, though arguably not likely.
Riker turned down his own commands, not promotions.
Riker could have taken command of a starship while still a commander, Dax remained a commander after being made captain of the Defiant.
Riker could also have been promoted to captain while still being first officer of the Enteprise, and subordinate to the longer in rank Picard.
This was Byrne's explanation for how Number One could be the ship's "most experienced officer" and still be only a Lieutenant. I think it's a good one, personally. And he included a scene where a superior officer warned her that she couldn't keep turning down promotions without suffering career consequences. And
she eventually got kicked upstairs, anyway.
Well, technically, he refused both. It's not like they let him stay on the Enterprise and made him a Captain anyway.
I should imagine that the crew Kirk had in WNMHGB were his main team and that he hadn't been in command of The Enterprise for too long at this point anyway and I didn't see any of Pike's old crew, save Spock, on the ship!
JB
JB
