Who are your top 4 Star Trek Captains?

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

Cool. Doesn't make Archer interesting.

I think he is judged harshly. To each his own...

 

[fireproof78]

I think he is judged harshly. To each his own...

Striking out on your own and refusing help makes it difficult to be sympathetic.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

Striking out on your own and refusing help makes it difficult to be sympathetic.

He did have some "triumphs" along the way.

 

[fireproof78]

He did have some "triumphs" along the way.

Good for him.

 

[Paul755]

I don’t recall Archer refusing the Vulcans help. It was more like the Vulcans refusing to help and actively trying to prevent Archer from being the Captain.

 

[fireproof78]

Archer demands they let Earth deal with it, ignoring the request of a foreign power due to personal animus. And this man is supposedly a trained diplomat.

 

[Paul755]

Do you mean with the Klingons in the pilot?

 

[fireproof78]

Yes.

 

[Paul755]

I dunno. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal. He saw an opportunity and took it.

besides, his attitude to the Vulcans is understandable and justified.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

I don’t recall Archer refusing the Vulcans help. It was more like the Vulcans refusing to help and actively trying to prevent Archer from being the Captain.

Not to mention, it added a whole new dimension to Earth/Vuclan early diplomatic relations. It made sense that there could be tensions to that effect because when are relationships (diplomatic or otherwise) ever 100% perfect? It was a clever way to add development to their history.

 

[fireproof78]

understandable

Yes.

justified

It doesn't justify his behavior.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

Yes.

It doesn't justify his behavior.

It was done for dramatic purposes. We have seen plenty of drama (sometimes irrational) in Star Trek. Archer is hardly the biggest offender.
Maybe this guy is though.

 

[fireproof78]

It was done for dramatic purposes. We have seen plenty of drama (sometimes irrational) in Star Trek. Archer is hardly the biggest offender.
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I don't like Picard either.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

I don't like Picard either.

I like Picard's character, but I didn't like him in First Contact.

 

[fireproof78]

I like Picard's character, but I didn't like him in First Contact.

I didn't like him until Picard, and even then that was a casual interest, which does not keep me engaged when they are the lead on a show.

 

[Oddish]

I expect that if I was kidnapped, mutilated, and forced to commit a horrific mass murder by a bunch of relentless robot zombies, I'd be just as pissed off as Picard was.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

I expect that if I was kidnapped, mutilated, and forced to commit a horrific mass murder by a bunch of relentless robot zombies, I'd be just as pissed off as Picard was.

Only years after the fact? We didn't see him that crazed when he encountered the Borg again on the show. He was cool as a cucumber.

 

[fireproof78]

Only years after the fact? We didn't see him that crazed when he encountered the Borg again on the show. He was cool as a cucumber.

That's how trauma can work.

 

[Oddish]

And it's not that simple. Look at both Picard and Guinan in "I Borg", and how their attitude toward Hugh inverted completely. Especially Guinan; one minute she's stabbing Picard as an object lesson, the next she's telling him to talk to Hugh.

 

[at Quark's]

^yeah, often we tend to see Guinan as someone with a serene kind of wisdom, but let's not forget that she has seen the assimilation of almost her entire species. It's hardly to be expected she could look to the Borg without prejudice and trauma.