Who’s in command of the NX-01 in 2161? (TATV topic)

[FederationHistorian]

Upon reviewing Archer's bio, I noticed something odd.

Archer was selected to be captain in October 2150, according to “First Flight.” He was in command until 2160, according to his bio on the Defiant in IAMD, which also confirms he became captain of the NX-01 in 2150. According to TATV, he is referred to as captain in the finale, which takes place 6 years after “Terra Prime” in 2155, so he hadn’t been promoted to Admiral yet. Or at least isn’t being referred to as Admiral.

So, what happened? I’m aware of there being mistakes made in the scripts before (T’Pol’s logs after the destruction of the Xindi weapon listing the date being 2152 instead of 2154 in “Zero Hour”). But since neither T’Pol or Trip were mentioned as being in command of the ship, and Archer isn't the commanding officer of the NX-01 in 2161 anymore, who is? Did T'Pol and Trip refuse a promotion? Did the entire crew refuse promotions?

 

[RandyS]

It's TATV. It's not supposed to make sense.

 

[Dukhat]

They were decommissioning the ship. There was no reason for it to have any other captain.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Upon reviewing Archer's bio, I noticed something odd.

Archer was selected to be captain in October 2150, according to “First Flight.” He was in command until 2160, according to his bio on the Defiant in IAMD, which also confirms he became captain of the NX-01 in 2150. According to TATV, he is referred to as captain in the finale, which takes place 6 years after “Terra Prime” in 2155, so he hadn’t been promoted to Admiral yet. Or at least isn’t being referred to as Admiral.

So, what happened? I’m aware of there being mistakes made in the scripts before (T’Pol’s logs after the destruction of the Xindi weapon listing the date being 2152 instead of 2154 in “Zero Hour”). But since neither T’Pol or Trip were mentioned as being in command of the ship, and Archer isn't the commanding officer of the NX-01 in 2161 anymore, who is? Did T'Pol and Trip refuse a promotion? Did the entire crew refuse promotions?

Those Defiant graphics weren't intended to be canon, but the director decided to put a close-up shot in there. I think they're neat if you want to pause and read (or just read them from a screencap online), but not binding on future episodes/movies.

 

[Timo]

Well, 2160 could well be six years after 2155, no problem with that - T'Pol and Trip just split before the midpoint of 2155 (the last date we got just one adventure prior was in January) and the concluding adventure takes place after the midpoint of 2160 (we get no date reference there).

It's just that "TAtV" is pretty explicit about it also being 2161 specifically, the year the UFP got founded. Or then not; it could be December 2160 if we wanted it to be, and the big founding event could be in January. Sure, a newspaper clip from Picard's family album says the founding was in October, but we never saw that specific clip or the date mentioned there...

Also explicit is that the ship has not yet been decommissioned. Also, she's explicitly still flying in space, with Archer the highest-ranking person and the one calling all the shots. It would be a pretty weird technicality that would have the ship "already inactive" or Archer "already relieved of command", but I guess it could be doable.

I rather fear the likely scenario here is that, if the issue of Archer ceasing to be the NX-01 CO ever arises, the writers will look up the references at Memory Alpha and quote the 2160 date because it's there and nothing else conclusive is.

A fun fact about "TAtV": we never ever see the Enterprise! That is, there are zero exterior shots of her in the show, save for the nostalgia flyby at the end which may "depict the ship as she was in 2151" or whatever. So we are actually at liberty to decide the ship was shot to hell, or refitted like Drexler suggested, or given a third nacelle or a pink and blue finish. Or even that she was already retired and awaiting scrapping, and the ship we saw from the inside was actually the Florida!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Those Defiant graphics weren't intended to be canon, but the director decided to put a close-up shot in there. I think they're neat if you want to pause and read (or just read them from a screencap online), but not binding on future episodes/movies.

Yep, Mike Sussman wrote those with the belief they wouldn't be readable onscreen an unknowing of information from TATV that would contradict them.

 

[BillJ]

...but not binding on future episodes/movies.

As we've learned over the years, nothing from the past is binding on future episodes/movies.

 

[Tenacity]

the writers will look up the references at Memory Alpha

Does this ever happen?

 

[Timo]

Apparently a lot. I mean, both DSC and PIC are rife with truly obscure references that could come from nowhere else, and the current production teams aren't powered by semi-self-appointed Continuity Specialists in that respect, but by writers who either confess to being fans or then secretly indulge in it. And I really can't see them browsing their VHS collections for those factoids.

We're sort of still waiting for a truly obscure ENT reference, but they will come. Oh, they will come.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FederationHistorian]

Yep, Mike Sussman wrote those with the belief they wouldn't be readable onscreen an unknowing of information from TATV that would contradict them.

That’s likely, since when one looks at Hoshi Sato’s bio from the Defiant, there are no years of service listed at all. It just says she served on the NX-01 and retired with a rank of Lieutenant.

So, for all we know, the NX-01 was still used as a testbed for future starship technology long after its decommission.

As suggested in another thread, classified record would explain a lot in Trek, especially when referring to ENT.

They were decommissioning the ship. There was no reason for it to have any other captain.

A fair point. Being decommissioned shortly after the Battle of Cheron makes a lot of sense.

It's TATV. It's not supposed to make sense.

Another fair point.

 

[Timo]

A fair point. Being decommissioned shortly after the Battle of Cheron makes a lot of sense.

It would be interesting to learn what role the ship played in the Romulan War. Perhaps the ship fought, yet her crew stayed out of it, being forbidden from partaking in combat because they were National Treasures all, and had been put aside at their historical ranks? One would otherwise expect Earth's select few veterans in the art of fighting space aliens to get promoted to high rank and position ASAP in such a conflict.

Then again, Archer wasn't exactly a combat veteran to begin with, and probably collected around him a team of explorers and adventurers instead of soldiers. Not that they'd have been utterly incompetent, but UESF may still have felt that their skills were better used elsewhere. Such as in exploring and adventuring, which would not happen much during the war and thus wouldn't lead to promotions for the main cast.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[valkyrie013]

For who was in command.. I think Archer would have been in the captain's seat the entire life of the ship. Now could have the other crew have been promoted, or put on another ship? Maybe.. but I'd think after the war started.. the crew stayed onboard.. Now I think Archer would have been promoted to Commadore and led his own fleet of ships in the war..
Now in the books.. ( which I didn't like personally..) the ship was really put through the ringer, with the base frame damaged.. so a Long drydock time..

Now after the federation was founded, the NX-01 would be well.. obsolete.. and the brass wanting to save the ship as a museum piece..
New ships would have shields, a warp 6 or better reactor.. etc that you couldn't install in a NX frame..

 

[Timo]

In theory, truly significant deep space trips still took months in the ENT era - so when the war started, our heroes in their long range ship could have been sent on a flanking maneuver of some sort that actually lasted for most of the duration of the war. Heroic adventure after adventure would have been concluded so far away from home base that no promotions could be formally verified, leaving the heroes at their Season 4 ranks.

Even then, one'd expect the promotions to take place as soon as the heroes returned, though.

But perhaps Starfleet didn't believe in rewarding heroics with promotions back then? Archer's team didn't get promoted much after their year-long Xindi heroics, either. Possibly the reward mechanism still was the same as today - medals were pinned on their chests.

Doesn't help as much with the Romulan War as it does with the Xindi adventure, because in the war the expertise of the ENT team ought to be put to good use by sending 'em to high positions at high ranks. And because supposedly people would die in the war and replacements would be needed, and not every fallen comrade would be below Reed or Mayweather in rank...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FederationHistorian]

It would be interesting to learn what role the ship played in the Romulan War. Perhaps the ship fought, yet her crew stayed out of it, being forbidden from partaking in combat because they were National Treasures all, and had been put aside at their historical ranks? One would otherwise expect Earth's select few veterans in the art of fighting space aliens to get promoted to high rank and position ASAP in such a conflict.

Then again, Archer wasn't exactly a combat veteran to begin with, and probably collected around him a team of explorers and adventurers instead of soldiers. Not that they'd have been utterly incompetent, but UESF may still have felt that their skills were better used elsewhere. Such as in exploring and adventuring, which would not happen much during the war and thus wouldn't lead to promotions for the main cast.

Timo Saloniemi

I’ve had this theory that there is an unofficial policy that prevents the flagship of Starfleet/the Federation from participating in an interstellar war in terms of combat. It would also explain the absence of the Enterprise during the Federation-Klingon War in Discovery and the absence of the Enterprise-E during the Dominion War. I personally call it the Enterprise Protocol.

And for the role of the NX-01 during the Romulan War, they may have acquired a Suliban cloak for the purpose of reconnaissance behind Romulan borders. That would probably be the best way to use long range ships like the NX class, since the Xindi conflict showed how much damaged an NX class could get.

 

[The Wormhole]

Does this ever happen?

Simon Pegg has admitted he went to town on Memory Alpha while writing Beyond.

 

[Farscape One]

Does this ever happen?

I think Memory Alpha didn't exist until the third season of ENTERPRISE. So none of the previous shows had that go-to source.

(A shame I wasn't near them during production...)

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'll always love the excuse from the unmade movie Star Trek: The Beginning, where Enterprise was at Risa and misses the entire war (which is reimagined as a week-long battle in Earth orbit but sets up a sequel with a rogue Starfleet ship heading to Romulus with a stolen nuke)

There's certainly nothing in "These Are the Voyages" to indicate the Enterprise was part of another devastating war.

 

[FederationHistorian]

TBF, the finale doesn’t even mention what happens to the NX-02 Columbia either, while the Star Trek: The Beginning script simply says that it was badly damaged by a Romulan attack and was still around a couple of years before the founding of the Federation.

You’d think it would matter, since Archer had a thing for Hernandez, and Trip served under her. And the NX-01 was being retired, which surely suggest that the NX-02 isn't that far behind from retirement either.

Of course, that same script suggests that Starfleet reaches Warp 8 a couple of years before TATV, all while Archer and Trip are toasting Warp 7 ships during TATV.

 

[valkyrie013]

In the book series, the Enterprise wasn't in every battle, for a good chunck of the book, the Enterprise is on its way back home to Earth from 50? 100ly away, so months of travel, and the war is still going on while there in route.

 

[Timo]

I’ve had this theory that there is an unofficial policy that prevents the flagship of Starfleet/the Federation from participating in an interstellar war in terms of combat. It would also explain the absence of the Enterprise during the Federation-Klingon War in Discovery and the absence of the Enterprise-E during the Dominion War. I personally call it the Enterprise Protocol.

However, nowhere on screen was either the NX-01, Pike's Enterprise or the E-E called the flagship of anything much...

Doesn't mean they would not have been. NX-01 for her part was no doubt the biggest and baddest ship of the early to mid 2150s, although by the putative time of the Romulan War this might have changed drastically. Pike's ship looks weirdly retro for the 2250s and all the talk about her being kept away because she and her skipper were so incredibly cool sounds like transparent attempts at making Pike feel better; nevertheless, there is also doubletalk about the Constitution class being a good career move and all. And perhaps Pike's ship was the flagship for reasons of history and prestige rather than relative performance for the day? Or then she wasn't.

The E-E may be the Starfleet Flagship from which Picard moved to the Romulan Rescue Project, as per the words of the reporter who came to goad him at his chateau. Or then she was cutting corners, or Picard in fact left the Starfleet Flagship Verity in order to save the Romulans, having commanded the Insufferable and the Pompous in between.

Basically, though, only the E-D was ever given any exalted status as the top ship of Starfleet or the Federation, and she was Flagship to the latter, not the former, in dialogue.

And for the role of the NX-01 during the Romulan War, they may have acquired a Suliban cloak for the purpose of reconnaissance behind Romulan borders. That would probably be the best way to use long range ships like the NX class, since the Xindi conflict showed how much damaged an NX class could get.

That none of the crew got known promotions for that may then be explained by the missions having been so top secret that Starfleet wouldn't acknowledge to them within the lifetimes of our heroes at all - or by Starfleet having decided that none of Archer's crew were fit to be aboard the ship for the duration of the cloak sorties, and were better employed on USO tours.

Timo Saloniemi