Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by James89901, Mar 7, 2020.
Alright this has to be some kind of troll on the thread now haha.
A threat within is greater than a danger without.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes :P (yeah I get the irony that is an absolute haha).
I don't believe that's always true. A person can have terminal cancer, but if a bus rams into them and kills them first, then the bus was the bigger danger.
But, we are not talking about individuals but groups. And one doesn't expect the threat within.
I just don't see how any of the admirals that have revolted or caused dissent have been as big a threat to the federation as the Borg has.
So if you had to chose, you would say that internal uprisings have caused the federation more trouble than the Borg or Dominion?
Yes, because it erodes trust.
Whilst I agree that it can be a big problem. I can't see it at all being as great a threat as the Borg were.
Like I'm sure internal problems seem like a huge issue for America right now and that they might eventually lead to it's decline as a superpower. Yet I'm sure everyone on Earth would agree that the biggest threat that it ever faced was the axis powers of WW2. It's the same way I see any internal problems within the federation really.
Revolt/attempt a coup? Sure, only three, Cartwright, Leyton and Marcus. Gray area regarding Colonel West, who though identified as a Colonel, wore Admiral's insignia on his uniform. But what about all the admirals were involved with something shady and generally up to no good? Probably not a complete or comprehensive list, but in addition to those two you got Jameson, Kennelly, Pressman and Raner. A possible gray area would be
Spoiler: Picard spoilers
Oh who isn't actually an Admiral, but as a Commodore is still flag rank, and Clancy, who, though she hasn't really done anything outright villainous is aware that the head of Starfleet Security (Oh) is collaborating with Romulans and has Romulans posing as Starfleet officers working for her, and is seemingly okay with it.
Starfleet could do a better job screening its flag officers.
In my humble opinion, I’d argue the Dominion were the singular greatest enemy of the Federation. The Borg could be the singular greatest “threat” to the Federation per say, but the dominion war took the most federation lives,the most ships destroyed, and launched a brasin attack on Starfleet Headquarters. Pretty sure they took over telarite homework,and Betazed,which are no less federation planets than Earth,right?
Thanks for the list. I figured it wasn't too many.
I wonder if that's even a large amount relative to modern day militaries, and accounting for the increase in size of star fleet compared against the Earth of today.
Probably a more apt comparison would be the Allied powers throughout world war 2 and then America and Soviet Union cold war. Those 2 events are most closely tied in with a variety of situations within star trek. So I wonder if there were many serious incidents involving high ranking personnel during those times.
It's nice to think that ideally America would not suffer any dissent during another major engagement. Yet modern armies haven't been really tested, so perhaps shouldn't be used to compare against? I don't know. Just not sure if it's a fair comparison is all because America is clearly unchallenged in many areas that star fleet is. So maybe we shouldn't compare these modern armies, and their obvious lack of serious incidents on matters like this. I mean I don't think I've heard of anything about sedition at all? Maybe in North Korea haha.
Anyway, with that said, I also have almost no idea of any amount of instances with high ranking or middle ranking officers revolting or attempting coups within any militaristic organisation throughout history haha. For all I know, star fleet could either have it well under relative control, or the place could be a mess haha.
Oh I see. Good to finally hear a bit more reasoning behind the Dominion being in consideration here. I haven't watched much of DS9 so I am not up to date on what the Dominion is capable of and what they did.
I mentioned earlier in the thread, but yeah I never really got into DS9, but have recently watched some more and quite liked it.
Yes if the Dominion were capable of inflicting more destruction upon the federation than anything else, then I'd have to say they would be the most effective enemy. Even if there were other species or organisations around which had the potential to inflict greater loss.
Only one Admiral in the US Navy has ever been court-martialed in the 244 years since the Navy was founded. Picard takes place almost 250 years after Starfleet was founded, and there's already been ten flag officers who have faced court-martial, or would have if they hadn't been killed,
Spoiler: possible Picard spoilers within
or could still regarding the characters I mentioned from Picard. And of those ten, four were the head of Starfleet, and two were the head of Starfleet Security.
Why do you hate Star Trek?
Because it abandoned Gene's Vision and now disrespects Brian Brophy.
Badmirals & Badtians are from the Holy Writ of Roddenberry. Old and New Testaments.
Sorry, can't hear you over my cries of
GENE'S VISION! GENE'S VISION! GENE'S VISION! GENE HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS!!!
DS9 is my favorite of the series as a whole. I think it’s season 4 episode 3 “the visitor” is (again my opinion) the singular best Star Trek episode of any spin off. Period,I cried the first time I watched it and I cried a couple months back when I watch it. I’d recommend you watch the series through. The first (2) seasons are dull,not much for recurring storyline,but I think that’s kind of Star Trek’s MO anyways,it’s easy weekly watching and if you missed an episode (in the 90s) you didn’t miss much, Dominion war is a full 3 seasons deep so that storyline becomes the frame for the series.
Getting back to the topic, The Dominion is quoted in various episodes as being the singular greatest threat to the alpha quadrant. And not trying to spoil anything for you, but the Dominion is what united the federation with the Klingons and Romulans.
I’m not discounting the borg, because I believe in a hypothetical Borg-dominion war, the borg win every time. The borg don’t wage war when you really think about it. (At least not to the federation as we’ve seen)
Also, the federation “doesn’t believe in warships” yet designed defiant class to defend against the borg. When the “borg threat became less imminent, starfleet scrapped the class. Yet by the end of ds9 you see more than a few defiant class ships,so this implies the need for the warship was greater against the dominion instead of the borg.
I see. What about other branches of the US military though? It'd have to be the record of the entire military which is up for comparison, considering star fleet is the only military branch of the federation.
Perhaps starfleet are doing an ok job at least compared against America, considering starfleet would easily be more than 10 times the population of the American military of today plus all humans who have served in it the past 250 years.
Although I'd like to think starfleet hold themselves to a higher standard than the American military haha. So they should still be doing a better job to prevent these admirals from doing these things.
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