I prefer to think that Nemesis itself was a plot hole. How could anyone put together such a terrible movie?
--Sran
Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?
- Thread starter Lance
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I prefer to think that Nemesis itself was a plot hole. How could anyone put together such a terrible movie?
--Sran
An overly long TNG episode would have been far better than Nemesis!
At least the former might not have so blatantly shat over everything the TNG series represented.
^I'll be here all week.
--Sran
--Sran
I disagree. I don't even think it has that.
Here's my imaginary studio meeting where Logan pitches the story to Berman:
Berman: We'll need an A-story and a B-story. Hit me.
Logan: Okay, Data, right? Data... wait for it... Commander Data of the starship Enterprise... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!
Berman: Um... okay, didn't we already do that on the TV show? Oh, well, never mind. Maybe that could be the B-story. Now how about a really cinematic A-story?
Logan: Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Here it is. Are you ready? Captain Picard... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!
If you put it like that, sure. 
But the clone/twin angle was interesting in its implications, for me. I feel they spent too much time on that, and made the point moot too early in the movie. If Shinzon had been a better-imagined character, perhaps with implanted memories from Picard, they would've had a point.
But the clone/twin angle was interesting in its implications, for me. I feel they spent too much time on that, and made the point moot too early in the movie. If Shinzon had been a better-imagined character, perhaps with implanted memories from Picard, they would've had a point.
To be fair, they always used Data to parallel Picard's character arc.
Generations: Picard loses his family and has to deal with extreme pain and grief. Data experiences emotions for the first time and his emotion chip overloads. By seeing Data give up the battle against his new emotions, Picard realizes how he himself needs to win his own battle.
First Contact: Picard was kidnapped and raped by the Borg, and he could never have his vengeance. Data gets kidnapped, but unlike Picard, he is tempted to join the collective. Both share their weird love for the Borg Queen.
Insurrection doesn't really do it, Data's arc is used against everybody's arc. Everybody gets young again, but Data doesn't. Instead, he learns from a kid what it's like to BE young.
Nemesis has Picard and his evil clone, and Data and his mentally challenged twin brother. It's basically what they did in Generations. With the exception that this time Data gives advice on life to Picard. Because Data realizes the difference between him and B-4, and the difference between Picard and Shinzon. The life lesson is even delivered in the stellar cartography chamber, just like in Generations.
I don't think that anything about Nemesis was particularly compelling even on paper. It was just a very shoddily-conceived attempt at a too-literal TWOK clone, when they'd done a better TNG answer to TWOK in First Contact...the movie that featured a menace that our crew had a history with, and that the captain had a personal stake in defeating...the movie that featured a twist on Khan's vengeful Ahab schtick by giving it to the hero instead of the villain.
For all its flaws, I like Insurrection. Don't know why, really. Never thought too much about it. Maybe it's the 300 year old hottie. 
If I have to choose (and I don't because all the movies are right here where I can run them anytime at the touch of a button), I'll watch TWOK, Voyage Home, TUC, INS, and ST09.
But I usually run them all in order.
If I have to choose (and I don't because all the movies are right here where I can run them anytime at the touch of a button), I'll watch TWOK, Voyage Home, TUC, INS, and ST09.
But I usually run them all in order.
Only I think that scene has a plot hole
How can you attach a cargo container to the torpedoes and launch them? Wouldn't the container be too big for the launcher?
Back to the Trek movies
I feel very 50/50 about Nemesis. I loved the ship designs and the new weapon they created. I christened that the "gorgon device" since it turned the Romulans into stone.
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They used the probes signal, analyzed it and found that it matched the songs sung by Whales. Of course the only real plot hole there is why a Klingon ship would have such detailed information on Earth species, especially those that were extinct. But it is what it is.
I like it for the same reason a lot of people hate it...it feels a little like a double episode of TNG.
I think Spock had an earlier line about having synced the ship with the Federation library computer.
Yes, but it's a line of Sulu's:
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie4.html
So, yeah, the info was downloaded on demand. Good thing the Federation memory bank network was still functioning even though the probe was disrupting Federation power systems!
Hopefully that problem kept them too busy to care about a Klingon bird of prey hacking into their system.
Vulcan may have one, as well.
Oh, okay! I had totally forgotten that. Figures, I just watched that the other day too.
Like others have pointed out above, a lot of what is being described aren't really plot holes, but poor/lazy writing (leading to weird contrivances, bad logic, sudden character stupidity, inconsistent motivation, etc.).
So in my pedantic opinion, most of the Trek movies seem to be relatively plot hole free - the only one that comes closest to being a true hole is the "can't use a ship to get into the Nexus" - which flies in the face of how Kirk, Soran and Guinan all got there originally.
But in the spirit of the "plot holes" discussed in this thread, what always bugs me, and I'm a little surprised hasn't been mentioned yet, is that in STIV the Klingons are too untrustworthy to work with, but are totally cool to include in a high-level conspiracy.
So in my pedantic opinion, most of the Trek movies seem to be relatively plot hole free - the only one that comes closest to being a true hole is the "can't use a ship to get into the Nexus" - which flies in the face of how Kirk, Soran and Guinan all got there originally.
But in the spirit of the "plot holes" discussed in this thread, what always bugs me, and I'm a little surprised hasn't been mentioned yet, is that in STIV the Klingons are too untrustworthy to work with, but are totally cool to include in a high-level conspiracy.
I'm not sure if this is a plot hole. It's just a thing that bothered me when I watched Nemesis. When Picard is looking at a picture of himself as a young man (in the academy I think). It's showing the actor that played Shinzon (still with a bald head) in a Starfleet uniform. So Picard had no hair whatsoever when he was young man? We already know that's not true from the episode Tapestry. Even older he had a fringe of hair.
