Which newer Trek franchise do you prefer, Discovery or the Kelvin movies?

[Vger23]

It was probably the other way round:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series#Syndication

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Motion_Picture#Early_development

The problem is that credit levels and the need for more profits compelled studios to expand to international markets for features, and that required large marketing budgets, and later more emphasis on action and spectacle to cut across language barriers, which meant high production costs. That's why the latest Star Trek movies resemble many other Hollywood fantasy, sci-fi, and superhero tent-poles, with production time decreased because many of them involve prequels, sequels, reboots, remakes, etc.

STD was designed along the same lines: easy-to-follow plots crammed with lots of content, especially scenes involving spectacle, just like the latest Hollywood tent-poles. Hence, $8 million in costs per episode and reliance on Netflix international sales to cover much of it.

Nah,

People made shows with bigger budget and more action because they didn't want a fucking boring and stale franchise that bled to death slowly and pitifully in the 21st century.

If you compiled a gripe list of "The Fans" with regard to major franchise elements, and asked the powers to have heeded them, the results would be:

1. No TWOK, as death threats and fan uproar was happening in the wake of the leak about Spock's death.

2. No TSFS, as uproar and unrest again with the destruction of the Enterprise

Those two films failing to get made would have virtually killed the franchise right there. But, let's give the loving, caring, patient, positive, supportive fans the benefit of the doubt and say TNG gets pitched regardless (which it abso-fucking-lutely would not have been) even though the remaining films with the original cast would not have seen the light of day.

3. No TNG even still, as this was the ultimate sacrilege. Star Trek without Kirk and Spock, with Klingon good guys, no Vulcans, and an Android re-tread??? A bald captain who doesn't beam down? Nevarrrr!!!! The fan and even original cast uproar was overwhelming (you guys that hate on DSC are a joke compared to those days)...and didn't really stop until BOBW aired.

3a. No Star Trek: Generations, as word of Kirk's death spawned similar flailing, berserker reactions to word of Spock's. No GEN likely means no TNG films.

4. No TNG clearly means no DS9 or VOY. So that's all off the table.

5. No ENT, as the prequel idea with updated aesthetics and a starship that was going to look different than a tiny picture you see on the wall in TMP made everyone soil their pants. Repeatedly.

5. DEFINITELY no JJ Trek. JJ Trek wouldn't have made it past outline form if anyone was listening to the vocal minority of concerned, well-meaning "only care about the good of the franchise" fans. What a frigging cluster 2009 was.

So yeah, by my estimation, Trek would be a hollow shell of a franchise if the powers listened to most of the polite, well-intended fan "concerns"


The old days of the fans driving and even saving the franchise are WELL past. I see more fans now interested in ending series rather than continuing them. There are actually fans actively trying to tear a series or movie down because they don't like it personally. My how far our fandom has come.

 

[fireproof78]

The old days of the fans driving and even saving the franchise are WELL past. I see more fans now interested in ending series rather than continuing them. There are actually fans actively trying to tear a series or movie down because they don't like it personally. My how far our fandom has come.

This is becoming my concern as well, that watching the franchise burn is somehow preferable to the current incarnations.

 

[Vger23]

This is becoming my concern as well, that watching the franchise burn is somehow preferable to the current incarnations.

Fans put more effort and passion in now, pound for pound, to trying to end whatever offends their personal tastes regarding Star Trek than any letter writing campaign to save or revive Star Trek ever dreamed of.

 

[The Old Mixer]

A reminder: This is not the Discovery forum, spoiler rules are in effect. Have some consideration and use spoiler tags if you want to go on and on about Discovery plot details.

 

[johnjm22]

STD has the worst combination of flaws; it's stupid but takes itself seriously. The Kelvinverse films were dumb, but they were trying to have fun.

I'm not a fan of the rebooted movies, but STD is so bad it almost makes me appreciate them.

TV is a better medium for Star Trek than film, so even though STD has been bad there's still potential for it to get turned around.

 

[saddestmoon]

Kelvin - by a long shot.

But am also enjoying Discovery very much

 

[Pure Antiproton]

Both are great. I love them both. DSC is very serious, but in re-watching the episode Lethe today, I'm struck by just how faithful to Star Trek it is. I'm very glad both Kelvin and DSC aren't rehashing the 90s and are trying something new. Orville hasn't done anything for me in spite of trying multiple times. Just goes to show there is enough of us for both DSC and Orville to find an audience, depending on your preference!

 

[ralfy]

Nah,

People made shows with bigger budget and more action because they didn't want a fucking boring and stale franchise that bled to death slowly and pitifully in the 21st century.

If you compiled a gripe list of "The Fans" with regard to major franchise elements, and asked the powers to have heeded them, the results would be:

1. No TWOK, as death threats and fan uproar was happening in the wake of the leak about Spock's death.

2. No TSFS, as uproar and unrest again with the destruction of the Enterprise

Those two films failing to get made would have virtually killed the franchise right there. But, let's give the loving, caring, patient, positive, supportive fans the benefit of the doubt and say TNG gets pitched regardless (which it abso-fucking-lutely would not have been) even though the remaining films with the original cast would not have seen the light of day.

3. No TNG even still, as this was the ultimate sacrilege. Star Trek without Kirk and Spock, with Klingon good guys, no Vulcans, and an Android re-tread??? A bald captain who doesn't beam down? Nevarrrr!!!! The fan and even original cast uproar was overwhelming (you guys that hate on DSC are a joke compared to those days)...and didn't really stop until BOBW aired.

3a. No Star Trek: Generations, as word of Kirk's death spawned similar flailing, berserker reactions to word of Spock's. No GEN likely means no TNG films.

4. No TNG clearly means no DS9 or VOY. So that's all off the table.

5. No ENT, as the prequel idea with updated aesthetics and a starship that was going to look different than a tiny picture you see on the wall in TMP made everyone soil their pants. Repeatedly.

5. DEFINITELY no JJ Trek. JJ Trek wouldn't have made it past outline form if anyone was listening to the vocal minority of concerned, well-meaning "only care about the good of the franchise" fans. What a frigging cluster 2009 was.

So yeah, by my estimation, Trek would be a hollow shell of a franchise if the powers listened to most of the polite, well-intended fan "concerns"


The old days of the fans driving and even saving the franchise are WELL past. I see more fans now interested in ending series rather than continuing them. There are actually fans actively trying to tear a series or movie down because they don't like it personally. My how far our fandom has come.

From what I gathered, it was not so much fans griping but producers noting that audiences were barely interested in TOS. It took a cult following after the show ended to bring the franchise to life.

Fans put more effort and passion in now, pound for pound, to trying to end whatever offends their personal tastes regarding Star Trek than any letter writing campaign to save or revive Star Trek ever dreamed of.

I think it's the opposite now. The recent films and TV show are being targeted to an international audience, many of whom are likely young and know little about the franchise except for the recent shows. Similar phenomena might have taken place for other franchises, like Alien and Mad Max. That's why producers for many of them have been focusing on what look like weird combinations of prequels, borrowing from older movies in the same franchise, modifying character behavior or bringing in new characters for possible spinoffs, etc.

Given that, it won't surprise me if new Trek movies and shows are modified significantly in order to keep sales up. After all, they are now dealing with a show which, per season, is as expensive as a Hollywood blockbuster and must sell to an international audience.

 

[BillJ]

This is becoming my concern as well, that watching the franchise burn is somehow preferable to the current incarnations.

I'd never want to see that for Star Trek. It is something that has been a life-long love. Discovery may not be for me (I'm just really bored by it), but I don't want to see it fail. Hopefully season two does something to hook me that isn't in season one.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Discovery has yet to get 'good' and "Beyond" was such a disappointment for me, on several levels. But the current STAR TREK movie series is my preference, by far.

 

[donners22]

I like them both for different reasons. I don't think it's really fair to directly compare films and TV; whether new or old.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which newer Trek franchise do you prefer, Discovery or the Kelvin movies?

Discovery, without question.

As for Orville...nah, I think I'll steer clear of it. I take things way too seriously, I fully admit this. Parodies really aren't my thing.

 

[Jayson1]

Whatever you do, don't mistake a few hundred loud angry die-hard fans for "most people"

But if you took those few hundreds of fans I think you could say that most of them do, dislike the show.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

But if you took those few hundreds of fans I think you could say that most of them do, dislike the show.

Jason

Not sure if that was ever in doubt. Mostly because they won't let it be in doubt

 

[Lord Garth]

I prefer Discovery. The first season, so far, is the best since TOS's. At the same time, I have to give a shout-out to The Orville!

This is not to slight the first and third Kelvin films, though. I like 2009 and Beyond. But I prefer Discovery.

 

[The Old Mixer]

 

[Timewalker]

To answer the OP: Neither. Both are crap.

I don't really care for any of the TV/movie commercial Star Trek that was made post-Voyager.

I do enjoy the fan films, though.

 

[B.J.]

View attachment 3399

We need one of these for referencing DSC in an ORV thread too.

 

[The Old Mixer]

referencing DSC in an ORV thread

That's somebody else's problem.

 

[Tenacity]

I do enjoy the fan films, though.

They're admittedly hit and miss, but you got to love that they have heart.