Which Has the Better Score: TMP (1979) or TWOK (1982)?

[Captain Zog]

Most people consider The Wrath of Khan the superior movie. I personally would rate them as follows:

TMP = 9/10

TWOK = 10/10

but as far as the respective scores are concerned, Goldsmith's score for TMP trounces Horner's TWOK score. The sequel has some lovely music, but it never equals the epic beauty and magnificent elegance of TMP's music.

 

[trevanian]

As music, or as score to help a movie work?

As music, TMP is magnitudes beyond TWOK ... as a score, TMP certainly achieves a lot more, but there are some aspects that don't measure up ... David Gerrold has mentioned the vger music has a grinding quality to it, and while that is a truthful and intelligent approach to scoring for vger, it isn't all that easy on the ear. (for me it is fine, but I like listening to the CD called RITUAL STRUCTURES, which other people think of as akin to chinese water torture.)

TWOK works, but it works because it evokes other things (the TOS tv series, various nautical movies, Prokofiev, THE WOLFEN, BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, Goldsmith's THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY and PATTON, John Williams' TOWERING INFERNO), not out of any brilliance.

I think it is more interesting to compare TWOK with SFS, because Horner's hyping of the action in SFS is more obvious (and necessary), since the action visuals and cutting are so lame in Nimoy's pic.

Then compare SFS with TFF ... Goldsmith has to 'save' a lot of stuff there, just like Horner tries to do in SFS, but Goldsmith does a lot more than just save things, he delivers some brilliance along with RamboRehash, and that is no mean trick since he is still having to repeat a lot of his earlier trek themes as well, whereas Horner could come up with his own faux Klingon tune.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think there's any comparison. Goldsmith was already an accomplished veteran when he did TMP, and it's one of the finest scores of his career. Horner was a newbie when he did TWOK, and while it's a respectable early effort, it's lacking in sophistication and subtlety. Heck, even Horner's work today as a veteran composer doesn't rise to the same level as Goldsmith's scores.

 

[Joker]

Must be a joke.

ST:TMP by a lightyear.

 

[spaceballone]

They are two different kinds of scores for two very different movies. I like both but I like TWOK score a little better. The two movies have such different styles and each score fits its movie very well.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

TMP hands down!

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've always preferred TWOK score to the TMP.

 

[Broccoli]

TMP

 

[Similitude]

TWOK easily.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Given the fact that TWOK was a rehash of TMP, I will go with TMP

 

[Maurice]

TMP. I final the TWOK score hard on the ears, and a loath some of the orchestration. It doesn't help that it's Horner's generic movie music of the early 80s that's sound-alike with most of the other films he did.

 

[QuasarVM]

Both are great scores.

However, I have to go with Goldsmith (He's my favorite film composer of all time!)...and ST:TMP!

 

[Cryogenic]

Must be a joke.

ST:TMP by a lightyear.

My thoughts, exactly.

 

[I Grok Spock]

TMP for Ilia's Theme alone.

 

[ClayinCA]

Given the fact that TWOK was a rehash of TMP, I will go with TMP

What specific parts of the Wrath of Khan score do you feel are a "rehash" of the score for The Motion Picture? I don't see this at all...

 

[ProwlAlpha]

The first third of TWOK is a basic rehash of TMP in terms of visuals and music.

 

[Firebird]

TMP's score has always been the superior for me. TWOK was okay in some passages, but it never had a strong "theme" to it like Goldsmith's score had.

 

[Stardate]

TMP got oscar nomination and TWOK didn't. This has account for something. Also most music critic rates TMP score higher then TWOK. I know many TWOK fans will say TWOK score and TMP fans will say TMP score. But realty is TMP score is universally consider better score by most critics and people that like movie score.

 

[arch101]

By the time I'm an old man, I could see an orchestra performing Goldsmith's TMP score in it's entirety in much the same way we can go to see the performance of the music from a Wagner opera today. I just don't see that kind of longevity applying to Horner's scores. The TMP score is a work of art. Innovative, complicated and evocative. It's the crowning achievement of a true master composer. Horner is a pretty good movie composer, but nobody will remember him in 100 years. I'm confident people will still be buying music from Williams and Goldsmith by then. You'll probably find their stuff in the Classical section by that time.

 

[Shakaar]

Overall I think TMP has the better score. It definitely should have won the Oscar. I think it works well even without the movie. The one thing it really does well in my opinion is establish a mood and atmosphere. Its rather dreamlike.

Compared to this, the TWOK score is much more conventional and doesn't stand on its own as well without the visuals. Having said this, I must adm it that I really enjoy it as well. In fact, I think the last ten minutes or so of this score, from the time Kirk is told to get to engineering through the credit roll is near perfect. The funeral scene which contains Amazing Grace and leads into the beautiful theme that soars as we see Spock's coffin on Genesis (reused for the beginning of SFS) and into the Space theme. Couldn't imagine this section done better.