Which Godlike beings would be the best at guiding humanity?

[Robert Comsol]

Interesting that you'd select social Darwinism as an inherently pejorative phrase to apply to my selection here--I was thinking more of actual, genuine, biological change, through a very sophisticated form of breeding program.

My question then would have to be for what purpose exactly? IMHO, we've technologically progressed very far (too far) while our social development has almost come to a standstill. And it's rather frightening that the corresponding message from Charles Chaplin's speech / film "The Great Dictator" from over 70 years ago is as up-to-date as ever.
In Yoda's words "illuminated beings we are, not just that crude matter". And biological change is still "crude matter".

Why don't you propose an alternative answer? Not a "no God"-type equivocation, but an answer derived from Trek canon. And tell me why your choice would be better than Nagilum.

Fair enough! Now I couldn't possibly side with Nagilum or the Shadows because I believe wholeheartedly in the Golden Rule
(there must be some universal truth to it, after all Jesus said it and even Richard Dawkins agrees with it ) and that we have free will that enables us to live or thrive not at the expense of others.

I thought about the Organians ("Errand of Mercy"), first, but there goes free will.

Next the Metrons came to mind. What I really liked about their attitude was to deprive Kirk and the Gorn captain instantly of their "push the button" capabilities. Wanna kill each other? Fine, but then you have to get your hands dirty and nobody else is doing your dirty work, you two characters will do it yourselves.

If instead of modern military warfare, we'd be forced (civilized as we now are) to look our victims straight into the eye, I'd guess we'd already have a lot less of pain and agony.

Bob

 

[publiusr]

At least the Shadows from Babylon 5 actually handed tech out. In stargate, you could ascend, then bring tech back. Heck that series even had tech that could neutralize mental beings.

I'd love to see someone hit a switch and Q fall from the sky.

"What did you do?!"

 

[JarodRussell]

At least the Shadows from Babylon 5 actually handed tech out. In stargate, you could ascend, then bring tech back. Heck that series even had tech that could neutralize mental beings.

I'd love to see someone hit a switch and Q fall from the sky.

"What did you do?!"

Didn't they develop a weapon against Q in one of those Voyager episodes?

 

[MacLeod]

B5 has a pair of godlike villains who try to run the universe through philosophies of order and chaos, but to the narrative the issue is reduced to 'These big powerful creatures are here to blow us up'. It doesn't really analyze anything on a higher level than any other smarter than average space opera or make any real attempt to deconstruct or analyze the issue.

What about Amanda Q? Puppies for everyone!

Yeah - B5 had an opportunity to tell a deeper story, but whiffed. Basically it's message was "hey older awesome races. we don't need you for anything, let us figure it our ourselves"
Ok. Thanks.

Amanda Q would be cool, that was a storyline that I wish TNG would have revisited.

True about B5. But as you say it was basically telling our parents. Leave us out of your arguments, don't force us to take side. Let us find our own way in the universe.

You could also say you've been bad parents and are kicking you out of the house.

 

[Jedi_Master]

B5 has a pair of godlike villains who try to run the universe through philosophies of order and chaos, but to the narrative the issue is reduced to 'These big powerful creatures are here to blow us up'. It doesn't really analyze anything on a higher level than any other smarter than average space opera or make any real attempt to deconstruct or analyze the issue.

What about Amanda Q? Puppies for everyone!

Yeah - B5 had an opportunity to tell a deeper story, but whiffed. Basically it's message was "hey older awesome races. we don't need you for anything, let us figure it our ourselves"
Ok. Thanks.

Amanda Q would be cool, that was a storyline that I wish TNG would have revisited.

True about B5. But as you say it was basically telling our parents. Leave us out of your arguments, don't force us to take side. Let us find our own way in the universe.

You could also say you've been bad parents and are kicking you out of the house.

That's true. I just felt the nuance and subtlety fell apart toward the end of that major story arc.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

At least the Shadows from Babylon 5 actually handed tech out. In stargate, you could ascend, then bring tech back. Heck that series even had tech that could neutralize mental beings.

I'd love to see someone hit a switch and Q fall from the sky.

"What did you do?!"

Didn't they develop a weapon against Q in one of those Voyager episodes?

No. They picked up weapons built by Q to use against Q off the ground and pointed them at a Q.

 

[JarodRussell]

I thought they did something with supernovae or something.
Whatever it was, there was a direct physical relation between what happened in the Q continuum and the galaxy. So it is possible to build weapons to attack Q.

 

[Vandervecken]

Interesting that you'd select social Darwinism as an inherently pejorative phrase to apply to my selection here--I was thinking more of actual, genuine, biological change, through a very sophisticated form of breeding program.

My question then would have to be for what purpose exactly? IMHO, we've technologically progressed very far (too far) while our social development has almost come to a standstill. And it's rather frightening that the corresponding message from Charles Chaplin's speech / film "The Great Dictator" from over 70 years ago is as up-to-date as ever.
In Yoda's words "illuminated beings we are, not just that crude matter". And biological change is still "crude matter".

Why don't you propose an alternative answer? Not a "no God"-type equivocation, but an answer derived from Trek canon. And tell me why your choice would be better than Nagilum.

Fair enough! Now I couldn't possibly side with Nagilum or the Shadows because I believe wholeheartedly in the Golden Rule
(there must be some universal truth to it, after all Jesus said it and even Richard Dawkins agrees with it ) and that we have free will that enables us to live or thrive not at the expense of others.

I thought about the Organians ("Errand of Mercy"), first, but there goes free will.

Next the Metrons came to mind. What I really liked about their attitude was to deprive Kirk and the Gorn captain instantly of their "push the button" capabilities. Wanna kill each other? Fine, but then you have to get your hands dirty and nobody else is doing your dirty work, you two characters will do it yourselves.

If instead of modern military warfare, we'd be forced (civilized as we now are) to look our victims straight into the eye, I'd guess we'd already have a lot less of pain and agony.

Bob

Bob, your choice is based on how much you like the process. But I want the result--maybe Vorlonish or Metronish or Organianish or even Qish humanity at some point. Faster than we'd get there ourselves.

The idea of personal conflict to resolve grander disputes is appealing. It is. No question. But how does that evolve us as a species? If we want a god that gets us somewhere, I was thinking that Nagilum's harsh methods could advance us quickly, based on a punctuated equilibria approach to evolution--isolated subpopulations subjected to dire selection pressures, with extreme mortality rates and fixing of recessives through inbreeding; then outbreeding for hybrid vigor. Nagilum's pocket universes applied to the Federation (or maybe the whole Alpha quadrant) would be ideal for that approach.

 

[Dryson]

I would have to say the best Beings to guide humanity through the process of space exploration would have to be the Trill. The knowledge that the Trill accumulates over its entire lifetime along with the knowledge of its host would make for a rather insight and intelligent leader.

 

[JarodRussell]

That's why Goa'uld were acting as Gods. Oops, wrong franchise! Tihihi.

 

[LeadHead]

None of them would have been up to the job. One of the biggest messages of Star Trek is that everyone is imperfect, including the "godlike" beings, they would inevitably create a mess that would end in disaster.

 

[Amaris]

Based on every godlike being we've seen, I'd say none of them.

This.

 

[PhoenixClass]

The idea of personal conflict to resolve grander disputes is appealing. It is. No question. But how does that evolve us as a species? If we want a god that gets us somewhere, I was thinking that Nagilum's harsh methods could advance us quickly, based on a punctuated equilibria approach to evolution--isolated subpopulations subjected to dire selection pressures, with extreme mortality rates and fixing of recessives through inbreeding; then outbreeding for hybrid vigor. Nagilum's pocket universes applied to the Federation (or maybe the whole Alpha quadrant) would be ideal for that approach.

This method is needlessly brutal.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I thought they did something with supernovae or something.
Whatever it was, there was a direct physical relation between what happened in the Q continuum and the galaxy. So it is possible to build weapons to attack Q.

They had to use supernovae to get them into the continuum, I don't remember the specifics.

Kinda. It implies there exists a weapon that can kill the Q, but they were only able to use it because they were in the civil war world created by the Q to make it possible for humans to perceive the continuum. So in any other case they wouldn't have been able to wield the weapon.