Which 3 characters would you have killed off in “Caretaker”?…

[DizzyMan]

I just watched Caretaker for the first time in years and something occurred to me… (sorry if this has been said a million times already)…

There were 3 characters on that ship who I think could have made the show great — and they killed them off!

I’m referring, of course, to the three people who clearly resent Tom Paris. These people were interesting: there was real tension on the ship! Conflicts to resolve; friendships to make; trust build and respect to earn. The foundations of a great show.

And that betazoid girl, Stadi — not only was she sexy (something the first few seasons of Voyager were crying out for) but Tom’s attempts to win her over could have been the start of a really interesting relationship. Similar to his relationship with B'Elanna, only perhaps with more emotional grounding?

But no! These “emotionally cold” people were clearly only created so they could be killed off and no one would care about them. Instead we get a bunch of “nice” people who all get along. Tom seems to have a much darker side in Caretaker, but sadly it was downplayed as the series progressed. As for Chacotay (the “rebel” Maquis leader): if he’d been any more compliant with Janeway in Caretaker, he would have been wearing a butler suit and serving her wine.

I was, however, pleasantly surprised at how fantastic the Doctor is in Caretaker. Not only is he a fully-formed character from the very start, but Picardo does such a great job with him. He’s both funny and interesting, and his lack of patience and courtesy makes him much more like a “real person” which gives the show a lot of depth. (Like a certain TOS doctor.)

Anyway, to my question:
Which 3 characters would you have killed off in Caretaker?
(For the purposes of this question, let’s assume that everyone not killed would still be a main character on the show, so the EMH would still be there alongside the original doctor.)

I would have chosen Chacotay, Kim and (apologies) Tuvok.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Kim, cuz he never amounts to anything. Can't say I hate the character. He's just a non-entity.

Neelix, cuz he's Neelix. Plus the idea of the friendly guide who just dies after helping the crew is amusing to me.

The chief engineer...wait, did we ever see him?

If not, then the human doctor and keep the Vulcan "nurse".

Paris should've been the character from TNG's "The First Duty" (is that the episode). Irredeemable, they said? Probably, and that's what would've made the character interesting.

 

[ialfan]

Neelix, First Office, Original Doctor. Have Carey be the ship's original chief engineer and be ousted out of his position and replaced with B'Elanna and use that to create some real lasting tension between them.

 

[sbk1234]

I never liked Kes. I wouldn't have minded to see her bite it on the first episode. I also never liked the idea of a holographic character. I hate to say that because Robert Picardo is an exceptional actor. I would have rather he play a human/biological character with the problems in relating to others.

But if I have to pick three from the pilot, I'd pick 1) Harry - He just turned out to be a character with the least amount of growth. 2) Chakotay - He never lived up to his potential. I see Cabot as being the type of first officer who could be a disagreeable thorn in Janeway's side. and 3) the original doctor. For reasons of character development, Cabot would have served the same function.
That said, I could have seen Picardo play a visiting doctor with no field experience, who has to take over when Voyager's regular CMO gets killed.

But, alas, TPTB never asked my opinion.

 

[Orac Zen]

Paris should've been the character from TNG's "The First Duty" (is that the episode). Irredeemable, they said? Probably, and that's what would've made the character interesting.

Yeah, but then they'd have had to pay royalties to the writer(s) of "The First Duty", so that put paid to that.

Kim, Chuckles and that pompous, arrogant human doctor (who actually did die) would have been my picks.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Maybe we should just pick two. I have a feeling Harry is going to be a given in all the replies.

 

[borgboy]

Harry definitely , he was pretty pointless. The only times I ever found Harry interesting were the epsiodes where we see the older AU Harry.
The human doctor, as the EMH is better in the story as the only doctor. I would however keep the Vulcan nurse, of all the characters killed in Caretaker she's the one I found the most intriging.
Neelix mostly annoyed me, so I'd be willing to see him killed off. Kes could instead find love with the female Vulcan nurse, and Kes would've stay on as a crew member for the whole series.
The only problem with my choices is by leaving Janeway's sexy original first officer alive it becomes difficult to have Chakotay as the other sexy first officer, and the show would definitely lose something without Chakotay as first officer. Perhaps Janeway could demote her original first officer for insubaordination (he tries to prevent her from destroying the array), so that sets up an intersting dynamic of a very angry and bitter demoted first officer resenting Janeway and Chakotay who would continue to stir up anti-Marquis sentiments among some crew members. Some ongoing difficult interactions would've made for good drama. As much as I love Voyager, the show could've used more antagonism among the leads.
I don't have any ideas off the top of my head for the Betazoid , but I'm sure interesting things could be done with her. Perhaps she could get involved with the ex-first officer and be part of the anti-Marquis faction.
I also agree Paris was more interesting as the angstry angry bad boy he started out as.
I'd also have kept Seska as a regular cast member, so much cou;d've been doen with her. If she'd been a regular it would've made a great cliffhanger for the audiance to discover her true identity while the crew is oblivious, and after another year let her be outed and imprisoned but consulted frequently for whatever vital information she had, let her join the Kazon for an extended arc, and eventually betrays the Kazon to save Voyager where she is allowed to rejoin the crew in a probationary status, a controversial move that would cause her to continue to have difficult interactions with the crew.

 

[Cali]

And that betazoid girl, Stadi — not only was she sexy (something the first few seasons of Voyager were crying out for) but Tom’s attempts to win her over could have been the start of a really interesting relationship. Similar to his relationship with B'Elanna, only perhaps with more emotional grounding?

There was a Betazoid on Voyager? It could have been interesting, so long as she was given more to do than Deanna's "I... sense... pain..." in TNG.

As for Chacotay (the “rebel” Maquis leader): if he’d been any more compliant with Janeway in Caretaker, he would have been wearing a butler suit and serving her wine.

I agree with you here. Having watched Caretaker for the first time this week, I was really surprised that he didn't fight against Janeway much much more. Even in Parallax when they're talking about the Chief Engineer position I thought there could perhaps have been a bit more of Chakotay fighting B'Elanna's corner.

I was, however, pleasantly surprised at how fantastic the Doctor is in Caretaker. Not only is he a fully-formed character from the very start, but Picardo does such a great job with him. He’s both funny and interesting, and his lack of patience and courtesy makes him much more like a “real person” which gives the show a lot of depth. (Like a certain TOS doctor.)

Me too! Picardo is a cracking actor, he really is. If I hadn't seen Voyager before I'd have fallen in love with that character in an instant.

As for who I'd have killed off? I'm really not sure. I don't think I'm in a position to say until I've seen a bit more Voyager!

 

[chrinFinity]

I'd have kept a small medical support staff to make the show more believable, but still killed off the CMO such that the EMH would still be necessary. Then I'd give the head nurse character a strong anti-holographic rights angle, but at the same time, she's forced to accede to the doctor's authority in medical matters simply due to his knowledge level versus hers. Sort of like the chief engineer conflict, except played out between a human/vulcan medical staff versus the EMH.

As the years go on and the rest of the crew begin to accept the Doc as a "real person," the nurse character just resents him more and more for it--after all, he basically represents a glass ceiling made of photons and forcefields, the the perfect doctor loved by all, and the guy never even had to spend a single day in medical school.

Chakotay is useless without the renegade maquis leader angle which they chose not to explore very much anyway, and Robert Beltran's portrayal turned out to be bland and uninteresting (sorry), so I would have killed him off heroically when he kamikaze'd the Kazon in the Val Jean, and have someone else (or a series of someones else) take up the issue of the maquis integration with Captain Janeway. With her in "more absolute" command of a more poorly integrated crew, we would have had the opportunity for more interesting conflict.

Maybe in this hypothetical version of the story, Janeway's a little more reluctant to trust them, but the ship "can't run" without a certain number of crew and they're "forced" to work together, more reluctantly than what we actually got with Caretaker. Her decision to form "one crew, a starfleet crew," could have been more unilateral edict, less democratic.

Tone down Neelix's tendency to be The Scrappy, keep Kes but only until the character ran its course, maybe do 7/9 after that, but with much less boobs and nanoprobes and much more rediscovering of humanity.

Bring the ship home partway through the sixth season in a totally shocking and unexpected way, and then spend some time on what the effect of that would have.

Sincerely,

Chris

 

[Cali]

Tone down Neelix's tendency to be The Scrappy, keep Kes but only until the character ran its course, maybe do 7/9 after that, but with much less boobs and nanoprobes and much more rediscovering of humanity.

Bring the ship home partway through the sixth season in a totally shocking and unexpected way, and then spend some time on what the effect of that would have.

1. re. Neelix: oh good God, yes. I liked Neelix okay but he really felt a bit much a lot of the time.

2. Totally. Dress 7 in an actual uniform over that protective catsuit thing. From what I've seen of Voyager she didn't seem to progress massively in rediscovering what it is like to be human. If they'd done that with the character I might have liked her a whole lot more.

3. I would have liked this. I really want to know what happened after they got home. Are there any novels which cover this?

 

[chrinFinity]

there are a couple of books, but they aren't very good.

 

[Cali]

That's a shame. There's so much that could have been done post-returning to Earth.

 

[borgboy]

I do really like the idea of the Vulcan nurse being anti-holograms rights. It would''ve made things more interesting if there was at least one character who was more reluctant to accept the Doctor as a sentient being. There are soem really great ideas here!

 

[amalie]

I think I would have kept the first officer but I still want Chakotay there so Cavit would have to take a reduced position; I'm sure he'd love that idea so, as an added bonus to the Cavit-Paris conflict, we'd also get some extra Marquis hatred Yep, that one works out nicely.

If I'm keeping Cavit I guess I have to get rid of a main cast member, I'd make it Kes but that feels like cheating as she wasn't there for the full run so it has to be Harry, poor lad I did like him but he's the most dispensible.

I'm glad the EMH was the only doctor and I was even happier that the Betazoid lady died, I'd had enough of the "I...sense..." situations to last me a lifetime.

 

[Lynx]

Honestly, I do think that the right characters were killed off in "Caretaker". I simply can't imagine Voyager without the main characters we had.

 

[tenmei]

Hmmm. Out of the main characters, I'd kill off Kim, Neelix and the Doctor:



Janeways original crew consists of herself, First Officer Cavit, Security Chief Tuvok, Ops Manager Kim, CONN Officer Stadi, Doctor Fitzgerald (from 'Caretaker' novelisation) and Chief Engineer Honigsberg (from 'The Brave and the Bold') and Tom Paris joins them as Advisor on the Maquis.

Tuvok is on the Maquis Raider along with Chakotay and B'Elanna Torres.

CARETAKER

Kim and Torres are kidnapped by the Caretaker along with the rest of the Voyager crew and the Maquis Raider.

During Voyagers transportation to the Delta Quadrant, Fitzgerald is killed along with his medical staff (a nurse and two technicians) as is First Officer Cavit and despite the ship carrying an EMH, it malfunctions and cannot be used.

Stadi and Honigsberg survive.

Because there is no medical staff on Voyager, Kim dies from the infection aquired from the Caretaker - but Torres' Klingon biology defeats the same infection and saddles her with a guilty conscience when she ends up being given the Ops Manager position in the following episode.

Neelix joins the crew in order to rescue Kes but ends up sacrificing himself to save Voyager and therefore also to save Kes by ramming his own ship into the Kazon dreadnought.

PARRALAX

Janeway appoints B'Elanna Torres as Ops Manager, beginning an arc where she seeks redemption for allowing Harry to die during the premiere by working on repairing the EMH program.

Chakotay takes command of the vessel when Janeway and Torres are not onboard, challenging Honigsberg who thinks he should have command as he's the senior-most officer onboard. Tuvok defuses the situation and gets Honigsberg to let Chakotay to take command - the Vulcan knows Chakotay is a good leader. Later, Chakotay is made Janeways First Officer at Tuvok's suggestion and Honigsberg is later demoted to Lieutenant (causing him to harbor a strong grudge against the Maquis crewmembers and eventually he takes on the same role as Michael Jonas in Seska's conspiracy against Janeway) and Tom Paris made his Assistant Engineer (the pilot establishes Tom was an engineer and not a pilot).

Tom later becomes the Chief Engineer when Honigsberg dies during the events of 'Investigations'.

 

[Lynx]

^^
Who is Honigsberg?

I can't remember any Star Trek episode with the name "The Brave And The Bold" either. Is it a book?

 

[tenmei]

Yup, it's one of the novels and the characters mentioned in a couple of short stories too, I believe. Alexander Honigsberg is the name that PB have given to Voyager's Chief Engineer.

 

[I am not Spock]

Harry, of course. He was always somewhat of a pointless character. And I agree with others who have posted here that the original Voyager Chief Medical Officer deserved to die.It would have been too difficult to include the EMH in stories if the original human Doc had lived. (BTW, has his name ever been revealed in any of the Voyager books?)

Lt Commander Cavit I would have kept around for a while. He clearly had it in for Tom, and any excuse to add MORE conflict in this show should have been encouraged, not discouraged (if I recall correctly, Piller wanted tensions between the crew, Jeri Taylor didn't).

Carey should have been chief engineer. If I were him, I'd be pissed that Torres got the job.

Suder should definitely have been kept alive. Brad Dourif is a cool character actor, and I would like to have seen what they'd have done with him.

I reckon they should have had Gul Evek's Cardassian ship survive the trip to the DQ as well as the Maquis fighter. Imagine the tensions between the Cardies and the Maquis if both had been forced to work together with the Starfleet crew? Janeway would be trying her utmost to get them from killing each other.

 

[LutherSloan]

1. Neelix (for the obvious reasons)
2. Chief Engineer
3. CMO

Voyager gets a LOT worse without The Doctor. You can't get rid of him, and he needs to be in charge of Sickbay.

I would have liked to see what would have happened if Lt. Cmdr Cavit lived, and Chakotay had to compete or something with him to be an officer. I agree with the other posters saying that it would have added some tension with Paris, who didn't seem to have any competitors once Cavit and Stadi died.