Where's Winona Kirk?

[number6]

Someone once observed that any time the crew of the Enterprise was introduced to someone who was "renowned throughout the galaxy" for their brilliance or humanitarian work or outstanding service record they'd have been well advised to phaser them immediately.

Dude. You just killed Zephram Cochrane.

Youuuu Bastards!!!

 

[Pauln6]

If anything, Chekov's age was a retcon. The writers wanted Chekov on the Enterprise, and they changed what they had to in order to make it work. If you need to excuse it somehow, say Chekov was bullshitting when he stated his age during TOS - he hardly said it under oath.

Meh, it doesn't really matter I suppose. My issue is more that the gang's ages seem to have been squeezed together more so they have less diverse histories and experience but this is a movie franchise - how much screen time are the supporting cast going to get anyway?

I would have preferred Chekov to be absent completely personally - he wasn't around in TOS season one, he didn't add anything crucially important to the movie, most of his role, apart from talking in a silly Russian accent, could have been passed to a different character. Batman works just as well (and some say better) without Robin.

While I understand the deisre to shoehorn in the big 7, the result is that female characters got squeezed out. I'd have brought in Rand instead and then introduced Chekov in a later movie. I realise that that people say they didn't know that there was going to be another movie but even if that had proved the case, Chekov's absence would still have been understandable. Rand's absence is about as important as Chekov's would have been in the grand scheme of things but the wider issue for me is the absence of women in a franshise that is meant to espouse equality. I think Chekov's absence would have made room to redress the imbalance slightly.

 

[ST-One]

If anything, Chekov's age was a retcon. The writers wanted Chekov on the Enterprise, and they changed what they had to in order to make it work. If you need to excuse it somehow, say Chekov was bullshitting when he stated his age during TOS - he hardly said it under oath.

Meh, it doesn't really matter I suppose. My issue is more that the gang's ages seem to have been squeezed together more so they have less diverse histories and experience but this is a movie franchise - how much screen time are the supporting cast going to get anyway?

I would have preferred Chekov to be absent completely personally - he wasn't around in TOS season one, he didn't add anything crucially important to the movie, most of his role, apart from talking in a silly Russian accent, could have been passed to a different character. Batman works just as well (and some say better) without Robin.

While I understand the deisre to shoehorn in the big 7, the result is that female characters got squeezed out. I'd have brought in Rand instead and then introduced Chekov in a later movie. I realise that that people say they didn't know that there was going to be another movie but even if that had proved the case, Chekov's absence would still have been understandable. Rand's absence is about as important as Chekov's would have been in the grand scheme of things but the wider issue for me is the absence of women in a franshise that is meant to espouse equality. I think Chekov's absence would have made room to redress the imbalance slightly.

Yeah, we need someone to bring Kirk coffee.

Is is now the fault of Abrams that the big characters of Trek are six men and just one woman?

 

[Search4]

^Pike becomes Jim's stepfather?

I can see the spin-off TV series now: "Admiral Dad"

Nope. "$h*! My Admiral Dad Says."

 

[RobertVA]

If anything, Chekov's age was a retcon. The writers wanted Chekov on the Enterprise, and they changed what they had to in order to make it work. If you need to excuse it somehow, say Chekov was bullshitting when he stated his age during TOS - he hardly said it under oath.

Meh, it doesn't really matter I suppose. My issue is more that the gang's ages seem to have been squeezed together more so they have less diverse histories and experience but this is a movie franchise - how much screen time are the supporting cast going to get anyway?

I would have preferred Chekov to be absent completely personally - he wasn't around in TOS season one, he didn't add anything crucially important to the movie, most of his role, apart from talking in a silly Russian accent, could have been passed to a different character. Batman works just as well (and some say better) without Robin.

While I understand the deisre to shoehorn in the big 7, the result is that female characters got squeezed out. I'd have brought in Rand instead and then introduced Chekov in a later movie. I realise that that people say they didn't know that there was going to be another movie but even if that had proved the case, Chekov's absence would still have been understandable. Rand's absence is about as important as Chekov's would have been in the grand scheme of things but the wider issue for me is the absence of women in a franshise that is meant to espouse equality. I think Chekov's absence would have made room to redress the imbalance slightly.

Alterations to the time line resulting from Nero's appearance could produce all sorts of differences. We don't know if Chekov's parents are in any way connected to Starfleet or any aspect of ship design or procurement. Nero's interference might have resulted in changes to their work hours and "recreational time", altering their child's genetic makeup. It would have been quite feasible that any character more than 9 months younger than Jim Kirk would look entirely different, have a different personality or their post be filled by a different person (perhaps a sibling).

 

[Sabataage]

Its just a bit humorous to me that of all the changes made, Chekov's age is still a big sticking point to some people. Why not Kirk's eye color or Pike's relative age to Kirk, or Sulu's ethnicity, or how, suddenly, McCoy is at least 75% more badass? Not to get personal but my parents had a stillbirth before they had my brother. Two years later when my brother was born my mother claimed he looked just like the one they had lost. Since they were both boys chances are if the first baby lived he would have been given my brother's name. Somewhere out there is a freaky alternate universe where my brother no longer exists, or has different name, while someone else who looks unnervingly similar is walking around with his name but a different birthday.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Y'know, it's possible TOS Chekov suffered some relativistic time distortion that STXI Chekov didn't. He could well be 21, even if his records say he's 24.

Not that it matters, of course.

 

[Agenda]

I think they should have foreshadowed Winona's abandonment at the beginning - maybe have her offer him up to the on-duty nurse. "A hundred credits and he's yours".

 

[Pauln6]

I think they should have foreshadowed Winona's abandonment- maybe she could have cast her baby aside after - maybe say to the on-duty nurse "A hundred credits and he's yours".

Or 1000 Quatloos and sell him to the Arena.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I know this question has probably been asked before, but just where the heck did Winona Kirk go after the opening sequence of the movie? All we hear about her after that is that by the time James Kirk is around 12, she's off-planet, but after that she isn't mentioned again.

I bet she got arrested for letting her 12-year old son ride a classic car into oblivian.

 

[kkozoriz1]

NuKirk killed her, her husband (if that's what he was) and his older brother Sam.

 

[Jeyl]

I think that there's some sort of action movie bible that says a hero's father must be the centralized figure of the hero's life whether living or dead and the mother should only be the thing that birthed him. It happens all the time.

- Superman is all about the father and son aspect where the mother only serves as the person who asks questions to fill the audience in. Oh, please Mr. Singer. Don't let Superman's offspring be a daughter. You love that dynamic far too much.
- Star Wars is all about father and son to the point where Luke's mother is barely even mentioned. And how did they treat this strong courages Queen of a mother? Have her willingly die because she had her heart figuratively broken.
- Batman Begins is tainted with this as well since Bruce's memories of his family only center around his Dad while his mother doesn't say or do a gawddang thing.
- Iron Man. Ha! Sorry mommy, all you get is a name drop. What was your name again? Whatever. Let's just watch father do his "I love you son" scene and go "aww".
- Indiana Jones. Ugh.... While I love the chemistry between Connery and Ford, it still limits his mother to only two vague references and nothing more. Oh, please Mr. Lucas. Don't give Indiana Jones a daughter like the one he had in the Indiana Jones series! By all means retcon it so you can cast the popular Shia Labugfudge and reuse the Jr. joke.

Aww heck. Let's do the prequel Star Wars to. What do Amanda and Shmi have in common? All they do is say "I love you" to their son, die, and their sons go off and kill the bad people who did the deed. At least Anakin had some form of regret while Spock was all happy and cheery at the end. (God, I just gave bratty points to the prequels....)

Back to Star Trek....

Geezos Cripes. Kirk's mother (who is never named on screen but Kirk's Dad George is named....TWICE) is so non-existant that they could have had her died at child birth and nothing would be any different. It's like dying at child birth would have been too much, but what's the difference if you're going to shelve her off anyways? All the dialogue that even references his mother is spoken off screen and can easily be removed. Wasn't she's a starfleet officer? Why couldn't she had been the one to tell Kirk to get off his &$* and do something serious for a change? After all, she would know George best, not some officer who just heard about his sacrifice. "Your father didn't believe in no-win scenarios" how the heck would you know? Why are you telling him this and not his mother?...
...
...Oh, wait. I know why. Because they wanted to have a father figure for Kirk. GODDA*$&!@.

"He lived to see you become Captain the Enterprise"

What? Was Kirk's mother off planet even in that universe?

"I'm relieved. Your father would be proud."

Your mother on the other hand? Well, she didn't consider you getting a commendation and saving the world was worth a trip from wherever she was, so let's just pretend she's proud.

God, this movie just hates the mommies and the ladies. They made Uhura useless, they turned Amanda into a fridge just to give Spock a motivation to kill the bad guy and Kirk's mother is just promptly pushed away and forgotten.

P.S. I love it how the green Orion ($10 says JJ will never admit she is an Orion) girl gets a name drop but neither of the mothers do.

 

[Hythlodeus]

*sigh*

 

[Jeyl]

*sigh*

That's what Uhura said when Chekov did her job.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Pike seems to be more of a fan of George than Kirk is. The only time Kirk even mentions George is when he asks Spock if he knew his father. I imagine that Kirk sees his father more as a failure. Kirk himself became a captain faster and ever magnitudes more people and didn't die himself. For someone that doesn't believe in the no win scenario George would appear to have failed needlessly.

 

[sevenstars]

Explain to me how Nero traveling back in time can result in the exact same Chekov being born four years earlier?

Two words: frozen embryo

 

[Jeyl]

Kirk himself became a captain faster and *saved* ever magnitudes more people and didn't die himself. For someone that doesn't believe in the no win scenario George would appear to have failed needlessly.

But NuKirk couldn't save Vulcan so there's your no-win.

Wait, weren't we talking about the lack of NuKirk's mother here?

 

[Pauln6]

*sigh*

That's what Uhura said when Chekov did her job.

LOL - you go girl (or boy or genderless alien). I too am tired of apologists coming up with lame excuses for the shoddy way that Trek treats its female characters if it bothers to feature them at all (oh but the women were boring, sexist, supporting characters in the sixties so we have to repeat that in the update etc).

I don't know what the answer is though. My own solution would be to insist that the supporting characters are not assigned a sex during the scripting stage but randomly prior to casting with a slight bias towards more women to make up for the higher number of male characters in the original. I dunno, roll a die 1-2 the character is a guy, 4-6 it's a woman. This is about the only way I can see that the subconscious mysogeny of the writers and casting people can be overcome.

Obviously, in some cases the sex is restricted (Winona couldn't have been in charge of the Kelvin while giving birth and Amanda has to die because they want to focus on Spock's relationship with his fully-Vulcan father etc). But random allocation might improve the way other female characters are treated (and illustrate just how far Kirk is willing to go to get a computer programmer to help him beat a test )

 

[kkozoriz1]

Kirk himself became a captain faster and *saved* ever magnitudes more people and didn't die himself. For someone that doesn't believe in the no win scenario George would appear to have failed needlessly.

But NuKirk couldn't save Vulcan so there's your no-win.

Wait, weren't we talking about the lack of NuKirk's mother here?

That's just it. He never met his father, We're not given any idea that he particulary misses him other than one line spoken to Spock. When he's stealing the car it's not even his mother that calls him, it's his stepfather. It's like she gave him up for adoption as soon as he was born for all that Winona matters. George had more of an impact on Pike that he did on his own son.

 

[Ryan8bit]

JJ Abrams is known to have characters with daddy issues. See Lost.