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Where's Janeway?

Wowbagger

Commodore
Commodore
Okay. This theory might sound a bit crazy, but bear with me for a minute and then you can mock or praise it as you will.

If we all take a step back for a minute to April 2006, what do you envision as going on in JJ Abrams' head? Abrams saw, as several fan film producers already have, that TOS is a powerful--perhaps the most powerful--of the several Trek settings. Perhaps this is some special magic of the era; perhaps because it was the first; perhaps it is only because it was the least used, with only 79 episodes and a handful of movies being the full knowledge we have of the era. Regardless, he saw at once that his movie, his revitalization of the franchise, would have to take place in the era of the Original Series.

Yet at the same time he needs to connect with youth. A jaded youth this is that widely sees the Original Series as, frankly, a joke. So how is he going to do this without alienating everybody and his mother? This is just speculation, but I think it's pretty likely that he tried to find some single thread within the franchise that he could rely on to connect today's youth with Star Trek.

Now, here's a surprise to I think a great many of you, but TNG no longer connects with today's youth. Shocking, but true. The Next Generation is now the previous generations; early TNG especially is regarded by today's new voters as an artifact of the horrifying decade called the eighties, along with yuppies, Atari, and Darkwing Duck. I speak as a college student who dimly remembers fragments of Season 7 only because he was a rabid fan by the age of 4 who referred to Sundays as "Star Trek day."

And, of course, no one watched DS9. Bloody unfair, but true.

And now I speak purely anecdotally, but I have every reason to believe it--and, what's more, if it's true, it might explain many of the franchise's poor fortunes in recent years. The thread of Star Trek that connects today's youth to the franchise? A little show called Voyager.

Really. I have friends who have never heard of Kirk vs. Picard but who to this day squeal in a masculine fashion at the mere mention of "Barge of the Dead" (which I saw for the first time tonight on DVD... good ep)--who never much cared for the fandom or the spockanalia, but who religiously watched Voyager with their families during grade school and to this day don't realize that they're not supposed to like "Threshold." When I mention Trek to one of my peers, they are nearly as likely to identify "that woman captain" as they are "that bald dude" or "the pointy-eared captain" (Spock. And, no, I never have the heart to correct them on it). And I continue to uncover fans who have never watched an episode of another series--or maybe glanced at one once like any other American--but who worship the Janeway Factor.

Once, I even met a C/7 fan. Let's not talk about that.

Anyhow. I don't know if JJ's this savvy or if I'm even right, BUT... just assuming that both conditions are true... what would be the first surprise I would expect in Star Trek XI?

Kate Mulgrew as Admiral Janeway. Her cameo being heavily promoted after its eleventh-hour revelation in the full trailer. It would take in all the fans who can't stand TOS and say, "Hey! No! We get what you love about Star Trek, too! And this movie is for you, too!"

Might be worth 75 million dollars in additional revenue alone. Six quatloos to anyone who can prove me wrong.

Oh, and, yes, this one was all for you, archeryguy1701http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=8530007#Post8530007. :D
 
Damn. Me and my big mouth... :p
Well, thanks for the dedication; much appreciated. I guess apparently, everyone who has ever been in Trek will be in Trek '08.
 
Wouldn't that be against cannon though? I know Quark says he can never get the guy to shut up, but I personally think that he's hearing things. The wee voices in his head, playing with him...
 
Didn't Morn once try to date Jadzia?

Well, if it would be against canon, then I'd like to see Admiral Forrest's death rectified. I mean, for goodness sakes, he died by having a bridg--building dropped on him. Very unfitting for the first CnC of Starfleet.
 
Well, then, you might as well drag in the timeship U.S.S Relativity (with its new captain Annika Hanson) to supervise Elder Spock's intervention in the TOS-era timeline.
 
Wowbagger said:
...A jaded youth this is that widely sees the Original Series as, frankly, a joke.
Now we know why young people are so widely admired for their keen insight and wisdom.

I have friends who... to this day don't realize that they're not supposed to like "Threshold."
You probably don't realize it, but you should be embarrassed about this.

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scotthm said:
Wowbagger said:
...A jaded youth this is that widely sees the Original Series as, frankly, a joke.
Now we know why young people are so widely admired for their keen insight and wisdom.

I have friends who... to this day don't realize that they're not supposed to like "Threshold."
You probably don't realize it, but you should be embarrassed about this.
Oh, knock it off. We don't need to start slamming others people's friends for liking certain tv shows. Pretty childish.
 
Ok, aside from the fact that you can argue Voyager killed the franchise, this has already been tried.

Star Trek: Nemesis had the pointless Voyager cameo.

The movie BOMBED. I boycotted the movie for that cameo, as I suspected many others did. Why would it be any different this time?
 
Utopianvista said:
Ok, aside from the fact that you can argue Voyager killed the franchise, this has already been tried.

Star Trek: Nemesis had the pointless Voyager cameo.

The movie BOMBED. I boycotted the movie for that cameo, as I suspected many others did. Why would it be any different this time?

Seriously? You boycotted the movie because of Janeway's cameo?? Wow.

I mean, the movie sucked...but Janeway's cameo is WAAAAYYYY down the list of reasons to hate Nemesis.

Personally, I don't think Janeway would have been promoted to Admiral after 7 years in the DQ. Just because you can run a little ship like VOY doesn't mean you can run an entire fleet...and precisely because she WAS in the DQ, she received no experience with this facet of command.

So I wasn't too keen on the promotion myself.

However, the Admiral Janeway issue aside....that movie had plot holes large enough to run the Enterprise-E though. I mean, it really was a terrible film.

But like I said...Janeway isn't the chief reason to hate it.
 
Utopianvista said:
The movie BOMBED. I boycotted the movie for that cameo, as I suspected many others did.

The fact that you might actually believe that this is remotely true is very disturbing.
 
Wowbagger said:
If we all take a step back for a minute to April 2006, what do you envision as going on in JJ Abrams' head? Abrams saw, as several fan film producers already have, that TOS is a powerful--perhaps the most powerful--of the several Trek settings. Perhaps this is some special magic of the era; perhaps because it was the first; perhaps it is only because it was the least used, with only 79 episodes and a handful of movies being the full knowledge we have of the era.

I do not claim to speak for the inner workings of Abrams' brain or those of his associates; but here is my opinion of what went down:

Star Trek is really two different things.

1) Star Trek, a 1960s television show. Many of its characters and catchphrases have become part of pop culture.
2) Star Trek, a franchise featuring multiple TV shows with numerous different characters, united by a consistent sense of the same 'universe' with Klingons, transporters, and so on. One part of this franchise was particularly successful - TNG - the rest was not.

Abrams is approaching Star Trek in the first sense. As a premise to play around with. The Bond films didn't retire Bond and then focus on his successors, Christopher Nolan did not make a Birds of Prey film.

So this isn't TOS. This is something new and different, but directly based on TOS. I expect it to be more or less like Superman Returns; with probably more canonical fidelity.

The same youth that may find the Bond and Batman of the 1960s boring and silly flocked to their reincarnations this decade. I know people who have Batman Begins on DVD and the only actor they can name who played the role besides Christian Bale is George Clooney.

The same, I think, will apply here if the film is a success.
 
PKTrekGirl said:
Personally, I don't think Janeway would have been promoted to Admiral after 7 years in the DQ.

Not just promoted, but apparently promoted from Captain to Vice-Admiral!! (Ok, I admit, I never noticed how many pips she had on her collar until someone pointed it out to me & I'm more than willing to ignore it. But at least one Trek novel author, Peter David, has accepted her rank as Vice-Admiral as canonical...)
 
EliyahuQeoni said:
PKTrekGirl said:
Personally, I don't think Janeway would have been promoted to Admiral after 7 years in the DQ.

Not just promoted, but apparently promoted from Captain to Vice-Admiral!! (Ok, I admit, I never noticed how many pips she had on her collar until someone pointed it out to me & I'm more than willing to ignore it. But at least one Trek novel author, Peter David, has accepted her rank as Vice-Admiral as canonical...)

Oh yeah...I know. I'm not saying it wasn't a travesty, because it was. And I especially feel this as a huge Sisko fan, because Sisko DID command entire fleets successfully during the largest and most important battles of the Dominion War....while Janeway had only to command her own little ship and crew.

However, on the list of reasons to hate Nemesis, this one, while a travesty, is (perhaps incredibly) not anywhere near the top of the list. :lol:
 
Look at it this way, PKTrekGirl: Sisko got promoted to Prophet and a Prophet outranks an admiral twelve ways from Sunday. :)
 
Outpost4 said:
Look at it this way, PKTrekGirl: Sisko got promoted to Prophet and a Prophet outranks an admiral twelve ways from Sunday. :)

Good point. Promotion to Godhood has it's privileges. :lol:
 
PKTrekGirl said:
I mean, the movie sucked...but Janeway's cameo is WAAAAYYYY down the list of reasons to hate Nemesis.
I passed on seeing Nemesis at the theaters because of the Janeway cameo. The very idea that Janeway was promoted was bad enough, but to insist on rubbing it in the moviegoers' faces was too much.

But you're right, there are lots of other reasons to dislike the movie, I just didn't know about all of them while it was in theaters.

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