Where's Doctor's daughter, Jenny? Any idea where she is right now?

[OmahaStar]

i actually liked the fact Martha got away from Tom. she fell for a different Tom, a Tom from a timeline that doesn't exist and never existed. she should never have been on the verge of marrying him so quickly.

and what's racist about pairing her with Mickey?

I guess its the notion that a black person can only end up with a black person. A bit simplistic but Martha/Mickey never made any sense, but that had nothing at all to do with ethnicity.

I don't know about that. Both of Donna's fiances have were black. Rose went for the black man first (Mickey). Jake went for the same black man (well, Rickey, but then Mickey). Hell, even Nerys went after Donna's black fiance in Runaway Bride.

And about Martha/Mickey ... Yeah, it came out of nowhere as far as the viewers were concerned, but a few things ... 1) The last time we saw them was in Journey's End, when Mickey stayed on "our" Earth, walking alongside Jack and Martha. 2) We have no idea how much time passed between that scene and when we saw them, post-marriage. 3) Being in tight quarters like UNIT and Torchwood, pairings happen. Look at Captain Jack and, well, everybody. Skin color means nothing on this show. Why should it to the viewer? That Martha and Mickey happen to both be of the same ethnicity shouldn't matter one bit.

 

[Sindatur]

i actually liked the fact Martha got away from Tom. she fell for a different Tom, a Tom from a timeline that doesn't exist and never existed. she should never have been on the verge of marrying him so quickly.

and what's racist about pairing her with Mickey?

I guess its the notion that a black person can only end up with a black person. A bit simplistic but Martha/Mickey never made any sense, but that had nothing at all to do with ethnicity.

I don't know about that. Both of Donna's fiances have were black. Rose went for the black man first (Mickey). Jake went for the same black man (well, Rickey, but then Mickey). Hell, even Nerys went after Donna's black fiance in Runaway Bride.

And about Martha/Mickey ... Yeah, it came out of nowhere as far as the viewers were concerned, but a few things ... 1) The last time we saw them was in Journey's End, when Mickey stayed on "our" Earth, walking alongside Jack and Martha. 2) We have no idea how much time passed between that scene and when we saw them, post-marriage. 3) Being in tight quarters like UNIT and Torchwood, pairings happen. Look at Captain Jack and, well, everybody. Skin color means nothing on this show. Why should it to the viewer? That Martha and Mickey happen to both be of the same ethnicity shouldn't matter one bit.

Agreed, a Torchwood "Lost Season" could easily show Mickey and Martha develop into the Tennant goodbye scene. It's My understanding there was a plan (that didn't work out) to have Mickey and Martha in the 3rd (or 4th?) season of Torchwood.

 

[Bacl]

Still came out of nowhere. And why were they both all badass with black leather outfits, dreads, and huge guns? I'm sorry, but it didn't look like the characters we'd come to know and love over the years. It looked like a scene out of Rambo or Starship Troopers. Oh, and a Sontaran, which also made no sense.

 

[wamdue]

slightly off topic

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-Tennant-gets-engaged-to-Georgia-Moffett.html

Where sure where Jenny herself is.

 

[QCzar]

The whole Martha in EoT thing just serves to remind us that she is the throwaway companion. I mean, the descendant of a woman Ten only knew through a false persona for two episodes gets a poignant, solo farewell. As, of course, does Rose. Donna is a feature character of the special. What does Martha get? Stuck with Mickey getting shot at by a potato. For a kicker, the Doctor won't even come within 20 ft of her.

Poor Martha.

...but you're still hot though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Meh, she's hotter on Law & Order UK.

 

[Starkers]

i actually liked the fact Martha got away from Tom. she fell for a different Tom, a Tom from a timeline that doesn't exist and never existed. she should never have been on the verge of marrying him so quickly.

and what's racist about pairing her with Mickey?

I guess its the notion that a black person can only end up with a black person. A bit simplistic but Martha/Mickey never made any sense, but that had nothing at all to do with ethnicity.

I don't know about that. Both of Donna's fiances have were black. Rose went for the black man first (Mickey). Jake went for the same black man (well, Rickey, but then Mickey). Hell, even Nerys went after Donna's black fiance in Runaway Bride.

And about Martha/Mickey ... Yeah, it came out of nowhere as far as the viewers were concerned, but a few things ... 1) The last time we saw them was in Journey's End, when Mickey stayed on "our" Earth, walking alongside Jack and Martha. 2) We have no idea how much time passed between that scene and when we saw them, post-marriage. 3) Being in tight quarters like UNIT and Torchwood, pairings happen. Look at Captain Jack and, well, everybody. Skin color means nothing on this show. Why should it to the viewer? That Martha and Mickey happen to both be of the same ethnicity shouldn't matter one bit.

Oh I agree, and I wasn't saying I agreed with it, just offering a potential explanation for the comments about it seeming racist. For me it didn't make sense because the two characters didn't gel, or at least we didn't see them gel together. Also whilst it's easy to imagine Mickey as a bad arse mercenary, Martha? Her whole life had been dedicated to becoming a Doctor, did it really make sense that she'd jack it all in to run around with a big gun? Still probably a fitting end for a character who was always a bit limp.

Still can't say Freema hasn't done well out of it compared to how her career was going before Who.

 

[Cutter John]

I think I know where she'll be this time next year. If The Sun is to be believed.

WOW!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-Tennant-gets-engaged-to-Georgia-Moffett.html

 

[Starkers]

Ah good luck to them if its true

 

[Sci]

My nickname for Martha is Martha the Strong because of all the hard stuff she had to take upon herself to do. She helped save the world.

She helped save the world. Donna helped save the entire universe.

Rose? Yeah, she just cost the Doctor two regenerations because of her own self-centeredness and stupidity.

.... what?

Rose saved the Doctor and saved the rest of the Universe from a Dalek empire in "The Parting of the Ways." (The Doctor had literally just surrendered to be exterminated when she showed up, remember.) And the Doctor's tenth incarnation died to save Wilfred; Rose wasn't involved in that one at all. And remember, Donna would not have been able to save the Universe in "Journey's End" if Rose had not saved her from the Trickster's brigade and warned her about the stars going out in "Turn Left."

 

[OmahaStar]

.... what?

Specifically, from Nine to Ten, and Ten to Tenpointfive.

He had to run out and touch her. Otherwise, that Dalek never would have got him, would it?

 

[Sci]

.... what?

Specifically, from Nine to Ten, and Ten to Tenpointfive.

He had to run out and touch her. Otherwise, that Dalek never would have got him, would it?

... it still makes no sense.

1. Rose did not "cost him a regeneration" from nine to ten. She saved his life and he chose to regenerate to save hers. Had Rose not been there, he would have died permanently at the hands of the Daleks. And she never asked him to save her -- that was his choice alone.

2. Rose is hardly responsible for the fact that a Dalek managed to sneak up on the Doctor in "Journey's End."

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

 

[OmahaStar]

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

 

[Sci]

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

That Rose who saved the Doctor, saved the world from the Daleks, enabled the Doctor's plan to stop the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen to work after one of the levers failed and he couldn't fix it, saved Donna from the Trickster's brigade, and helped Donna save the Universe from the reality bomb?

That one?

 

[Starkers]

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

Fantastic!

 

[23skidoo]

I think I know where she'll be this time next year. If The Sun is to be believed.

WOW!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-Tennant-gets-engaged-to-Georgia-Moffett.html

I thought they made a cute couple. She already has a son (she was a teen mom) so I think the kid will be the envy of everyone at school - his grandpa is the Doctor and his step-dad is the Doctor!

I wish we had a source other than The Sun for this news, though. I really have little faith in their accuracy. There are a number of Tennant fansites around, not to mention DW news pages, that will no doubt confirm the news soon if it's true.

If it is true, I can only hope this turns out better than the marriage between Tom Baker and Lalla Ward!

Alex

 

[OmahaStar]

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

That Rose who saved the Doctor, saved the world from the Daleks, enabled the Doctor's plan to stop the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen to work after one of the levers failed and he couldn't fix it, saved Donna from the Trickster's brigade, and helped Donna save the Universe from the reality bomb?

That one?

Those would be the Daleks she essentially created after the Doctor told her to stay away, in the episode "Dalek" yes? But no, Miss Center of the Universe had to go in and she knew best. She had to go in and "free" the one Dalek left in existence. Every Dalek since then has been a direct result of that.

So basically, if she did what she was told and acted even the tiniest bit like a mature, responsible person, that one Dalek would have died out and we never would have had "Daleks in Manhattan" ... Thank about that.

That means yes, Rose is personally responsible for two regenerations, the death of Donna, and of countless Humans at the hands of the Daleks ... and there would have been no "Pete's World" either. So she's responsible for the Cybusmen invading Earth too.

Even now, with Pandorica Opens, her influence and meddling is causing problems for the Doctor and the universe.

Rose pretty much sucks.

 

[Sci]

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

That Rose who saved the Doctor, saved the world from the Daleks, enabled the Doctor's plan to stop the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen to work after one of the levers failed and he couldn't fix it, saved Donna from the Trickster's brigade, and helped Donna save the Universe from the reality bomb?

That one?

Those would be the Daleks she essentially created after the Doctor told her to stay away, in the episode "Dalek" yes? But no, Miss Center of the Universe had to go in and she knew best. She had to go in and "free" the one Dalek left in existence. Every Dalek since then has been a direct result of that.

... no. You are completely and utterly mis-remembering "Dalek" and every subsequent Dalek episode. It's quite remarkable.

The Dalek in that episode was a lone survivor of the Time War. It killed itself after gradually developing a sense of compassion and empathy due to its genetic contact with Rose. It never reproduced.

The Daleks in "Bad Wolf"/"The Parting of the Ways" were created by the Emperor of the Daleks, who survived the Time War separately. All of those Daleks were then wiped out by Rose. She played no role in the Emperor's survival, nor in its creation of a Dalek army at the edge of the Solar System.

The Cult of Skaro independently escaped the Time War through the Void Ship. The Void Ship itself was detected and then activated by Torchwood, not Rose. Rose was instrumental in getting controls for Torchwood's dimensional portal to work when one of the levers got stuck, threatening to allow Daleks from the Genesis Ark to escape, and nearly died to make sure the Daleks and Cybermen would all be sucked into the Void. The Cult itself escaped into 1930s New York, where they appeared in "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks" before all but one, Dalek Caan, were killed.

The Daleks seen in "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" were created by Davros after Dalek Caan forced himself into the Time War through the time lock to rescue him. Rose played no role in their creation, but she did play an important role in helping Donna to stop them all.

The Daleks seen in "Victory of the Daleks" were survivors of 10.5's destruction of Davros's New Dalek Empire, using a Progenitor Device from the Time War to reproduce. The Daleks seen in "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang" were created from these as well.

At no point did Rose play any role in the creation of any of the Daleks seen in any episodes of Doctor Who.

... and there would have been no "Pete's World" either. So she's responsible for the Cybusmen invading Earth too.

No, she is not. The Torchwood Institute was responsible for weakening the walls between dimensions in response to their detecting the Void Ship carrying the Cult of Skaro. The Cybus Cybermen took advantage of that opportunity to invade; Rose played no role in this.

 

[The]

3. The creation of 10.5 didn't "cost" the Doctor anything. If anything, the creation of 10.5 prompted the metacrisis in Donna that allowed her to save the Universe.

Good point. So she not only cost two regenerations, she essentially killed Donna too. That Rose has got to GO.

Fantastic!

Check and mate.

 

[The Wormhole]

And about Martha/Mickey ... Yeah, it came out of nowhere as far as the viewers were concerned, but a few things ... 1) The last time we saw them was in Journey's End, when Mickey stayed on "our" Earth, walking alongside Jack and Martha. 2) We have no idea how much time passed between that scene and when we saw them, post-marriage.

I think I read somewhere that Journey's End takes place June 2009. Computer displays in Children of Earth indicate it takes place in September 2009. We know Martha is already married, there's a line in part 1 saying she's on her honeymoon.

If we accept that Journey's End in June 2009, then that means within three months of meeting Mickey, Martha ditched Tom Milligan, left UNIT, and married Mickey. That seems a bit too quick to me.

Really, all that was needed in The End of Time was that Martha and Mickey work together as alien fighting mercenaries. There was no need for them to be married.