Where'd This Phase II Cutaway Come From...?

[SeerSGB]

I don't take the "Enterprise Class simulator" sign in TWOK too seriously. After all, despite the inclinations of some fans to pretend that this is some consistent reality where every detail is equally binding, the fact is this is a bunch of different works of fiction invented by different people who interpret things in different ways and sometimes just make mistakes or forget stuff. So if most episodes/movies say one thing and a single instance contradicts them, it's often best just to dismiss it as a continuity glitch.

Besides, it was a simulator at a school, so maybe it was "Enterprise class" like "history class" or "shop class."

Or Enterprise Class as in the class of cadets that are currently assigned to the Enterprise is currently in the simulator.

 

[publiusr]

I just wish someone would buy the molds of the Brick Price Phase II we saw on Hollywood Treasure on SyFy before that container catches fire or something melts.

 

[Praetor]

Wait, what molds?

 

[blssdwlf]

P.S. Does anyone remember if the AMT model kits included “Constitution” as one of the twelve names on the decal sheet, or when AMT first started issuing these with the kits? This may have some bearing on where the “C” became associated with the “E’s” sister ships?

My late 80's AMT kit has the Constitution in it. Can't say if the early-early one's did or did not.

My TUC kit only has decals for the E-A though

 

[Maurice]

Wait, what molds?

These, from a thread two years ago...

You can finally watch the Trek to the Future episode here on Syfy. The Brick Price segment with the Phase II ship starts about 9 minutes in.

I don't know what the thing is actually worth, but Brick's thought of $100,000 is totally off-base, as screen-used models didn't go for that.

Here are some screen grabs and my notes:

As you can see in the above pix, the model appears to have been modified after Phase 2 was cancelled as the molds and castings of the forward engineering hull and "neck" feature a torpedo deck as was designed for the Star Trek: The Motion Picture model. This area is not consistent with photos of the model under construction in 1978. The odd diagonal on the mold of the hull implies that they recast this area to feature that detail.

Outboard side of a nacelle (port). Note the "intercooler" at the back and the faintly seen half-cylinder detail just forward of the cowling for the main grille, and just below the bakwards 7-shaped ribbed panel.

This shot (1 of 2) establishes that the casting held here is the inboard side of a nacelle (note the lack of the "intercooler").

This shot (2 of 2) establishes that the inboard side of a nacelle lacks a detail that the outboard side features (which appears just under the ribbed panel on the outboard side.

 

[Robert Comsol]

I don't take the "Enterprise Class simulator" sign in TWOK too seriously.

So how about that small print of a small viewscreen according to which that primary phaser belonged to a starship of a Constitution Class which is where the whole Constitution Class myth originated?

The difference: This TOS display was not discernible for audiences then and in HD, but the bridge simulator stating "Enterprise Class" was readable in SD on TV, VHS, Betamax, LaserDisc and in HD.

Bob

 

[Shaw]

Wait, what molds?

These, from a thread two years ago...

The secondary hull/dorsal molds shown there are for the Planet Hollywood Enterprise models Brick Price was commissioned to build after TMP, but he does still have the original secondary hull and dorsal molds (which were two separate molds) from the Phase II model... along with other stuff too.

All that stuff is actually quite safe.

 

[Praetor]

Thanks Maurice and Shaw. That's pretty cool... I'm surprised to learn those exist.

 

[B.J.]

I don't take the "Enterprise Class simulator" sign in TWOK too seriously.

So how about that small print of a small viewscreen according to which that primary phaser belonged to a starship of a Constitution Class which is where the whole Constitution Class myth originated?

The difference: This TOS display was not discernible for audiences then and in HD, but the bridge simulator stating "Enterprise Class" was readable in SD on TV, VHS, Betamax, LaserDisc and in HD.

Bob

No, the difference is that Constitution Class has been backed up by dialogue and other displays. Enterprise Class has not.

 

[Robert Comsol]

No, the difference is that Constitution Class has been backed up by dialogue and other displays. Enterprise Class has not.

The only "back-up" dialogue comes from retroactive next-gen continuity which I addressed in the links provided on the previous page of this thread. All we have are intentions of the next-gen producers which are not compatible with the outspoken (or outwritten) intentions of the TOS producers in The Making of Star Trek.

The only other display evidence is for the NCC-1701-A (Constitution Class) in ST VI - which is not the original NCC-1701 - and from the Okuda revised TNG-R version of "The Naked Now".

Very convenient for him. Rather than to consider the necessity of revising his Encyclopedia, he alters the original source footage to be compliant with his book.
I'm sorry, I can't possibly reward such behaviour and instead go with the original, non-special-edition of TNG.

Bob

 

[Maurice]

Wait, what molds?

These, from a thread two years ago...

The secondary hull/dorsal molds shown there are for the Planet Hollywood Enterprise models Brick Price was commissioned to build after TMP, but he does still have the original secondary hull and dorsal molds (which were two separate molds) from the Phase II model... along with other stuff too.

All that stuff is actually quite safe.

Well, when he was showing the molds and claiming it was the Lost Enterprise he should have shown the actual secondary hull molds instead of those after-the-fact ones.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Maybe he did and the editors for the show just used the wrong clips? Or maybe it's been so long that he didn't realize at the time that it was the wrong secondary hull molds? Or, perhaps more likely, the original portions have been lost/destroyed, and for all practical purposes this is as close to original as there is?

But still, you're right, a clarification was/is in order.

 

[SteveG]

Hi guys,

This one is mine - I made this about 10 years ago when I had access to the equipment similar to the stuff the TNG crew used to make their Lcars.

Thank you for your kind compliments, I was surprised to see this pop up after all these years! Eric was a loyal customer and I'm grateful he put up this image.

I used to churn these out back in the day then one day, I lost my contact at the graphics company and it all ended over night - i didn't even have time to make copies for myself save for a few rejected transparencies I still have somewhere.

The ToS era graphics weren't as popular as the TNG stuff and I didn't produce many of the PII MSD's although it was a personal favorite of mine because it was so much fun mixing ToS and TMP with a pinch of what we knew the PII Enterprise would have had.

I drew these in AutoCad and I'm sure I have the files somewhere, though right now to hand I have the image from this thread

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/maximumUK/media/phaser2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=349

MSD's for the 3 Tos versions:

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/maximumUK/media/constities.jpg.html?sort=3&o=352

one of the last things I did was a 30" long MSD for voyager for the fan made series USS Intrepid. This was made almost exactly as the TNG Lcars were done with a paper positive being turned negative and printed onto transparencies, then coloured with lighting gels.

I was in the process of making the giant rear bridge display when the party ended

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/maximumUK/media/mg2006.jpg.html?sort=3&o=346
http://s34.photobucket.com/user/maximumUK/media/mg2008.jpg.html?sort=3&o=345

I would love to be able to crank these out again but the cost is prohibitive and I haven't been able to find true black with no light bleeds.

Thanks again,

Steve

 

[137th Gebirg]

Very nice work

It is a shame that you lost access to those tools to make these things. I went through something similar about 20 years ago myself when I worked in a video production studio and had to move on because the boss was an insufferable asshat. The most fun I ever had, though. But all good things...

 

[werdegast]

Beautiful work.

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Wow that is some really great work I hope those autocad files are safe and sound.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

The TOS ship was Constitution-class, the TMP ship was Enterprise-class, but Starfleet in practice conflated the two for obvious reasons — the latter was a 1:1 replacement for the former, to the extent of sometimes being called a ”refit“, even though for all practical purposes, it really was a ground-up redesign. It's an unusual design situation, so we can expect unusual naming as well. I wouldn't reject Probert's intent of Enterprise-class, which also ended up in official sources of the time.

 

[Tallguy]

Shane Johnson teased that his Scott's Guide II would have reconciled the Enterprise class / Constitution (II) class conundrum. I want to visit the alternate timeline where it was completed. (And Firefly ran for eight seasons.)

Is he still about these here parts?

 

[Boris Skrbic]

But even if it were to be published, it wouldn't become more relevant than, say, Starship Spotter. We have enough information to reasonably reconcile the existing licensed sources. The redesigned ships were Enterprise-class, but they were also Constitution-class, because of the way the TOS class was replaced. Later, Starfleet may've introduced (II) in an attempt to clarify that relationship.

 

[Christopher]

I'm generally content to ignore the whole Enterprise/Constitution II class question, but here's an idle thought: What if the difference between Enterprise class (1701 refit) and latter-day Constitution class (1701-A) comes down to interior configuration rather than exterior? The refit and 1701-A have the same hull design, but notable internal differences. Notably, while the refit's shuttle bay is the rear part of a vast, open cargo complex filling much of the engineering hull, 1701-A's shuttle bay is in almost exactly the same configuration as the TOS shuttlebay and doesn't connect to a forward cargo space. There are also notable differences in the configuration of the bridge, engineering, sickbay, the officer's lounge, etc.

And there is an external difference as well, in that 1701-A doesn't have the pearlescent hull coating of the refit 1701. Apparently there are some other minor physical differences to the vents at the rear of the dorsal and the three "space-energy field attraction sensors" around the deflector dish, plus a change in the window configuration of the secondary hull, according to this thread.

So could that explain the discrepancy? They're different classes because they have major internal differences and slight external ones? (Although I gather those physical changes to the sensors and vents happened around TWOK or so.)