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Where would you rank it with the other films?

First Contact to me is like Cameron Diaz.

You first think "Wow! She's gorgeous!"..then you realize she's sort of ugly...not horrid by any means, but you realize the blonde hair and the figure fooled you.

I wanted that movie to be more about repelling a Borg invasion (maybe a lotlike Peter David's book Vendetta) instead of shooting Borg in corridors like a cheaper Aliens.
 
I just noticed, as I looked back, that my three C movies (First Contact, Voyage Home, and nuTrek) were those films that probably had the broadest appeal, while my other extremes were the films that were aimed at Trekkies only. You either succeed or fail when you aim at your target alone, but you stand a 50/50 chance when you aim for everyone.

Rob+
 
First Contact to me is like Cameron Diaz.

You first think "Wow! She's gorgeous!"..then you realize she's sort of ugly...not horrid by any means, but you realize the blonde hair and the figure fooled you.

I sort of agree with you or at least I get where you're coming from. Personally, I adore Diaz's I-broke-my-nose-surfing-again-and-I-don't-care look, but it's definitely odd. :lol:
 
And as a general rule, I like a story that takes the time to explain what's going on. (Or at least explain enough to make it clear that the writers have thought through the logic of it all—something clearly not the case in this film.)
That might be simple preference; I'd rather leave some of the mystery in place. How can you enjoy a good story, if you cannot draw your own conclusions based on the few facts you've been given?

They might be the wrong conclusions, yes, but that doesn't mean that they're not entirely logical in your mind. You don't get all the answers in real life, thus to make a story believable you can't get all the answers there either, in my opinion. Besides, it's not about the final answer, it's about all those questions and little facts that lead up to that answer. (It's not about the destination, it's the journey that gets you there that counts. :D)

And the occasional standout episode like "Balance of Terror" aside, Trek was never really about action and battles. It was about science fiction, and the allegorical stories SF can tell, and most decent SF isn't battle-driven.
All right, I can agree with you on that; SF is not battle-driven. But battles do feature in a lot of it; most SciFi (and dare I say it even Star Trek) is not strictly SciFi (think about movies like A Space Oddesey or Contact or even E.T. -- those are pure SciFi imo) but also part 'Space Opera'.

There is a lot of Star Trek that did feature space battles of some sort. Of course, you can argue about how important those are to the main storyline, but my point is: In those cases were these (large or small) battles took place (quite a few), they were entirely unrealistic. At least, unrealistic in the sense of a battle as we, the audience, expect it.

Space battles can not be realistically shown on screen. Ships would be miles away from each other and indeed, those battles would be more like old Star Trek. But they would be unbelievably boring. So, we expect battles as we know them today: chaotic circumstances, lots of people yelling through each other and a Captain that has to try and get some sort of order out of all that chaos and still be able to decide on the right course of action. War might be ordered, individual battles aren't -- plans don't stick when the battle begins.

And that's my problem with the battle sequences in old Star Trek: If you have to have a battle sequence for whatever reason, then at least do it well. Make it as chaotic as possible to get a real sense of danger. You're not supposed to take some time out to get the larger picture. Everything happens too fast and all you care about is survival. In that sense, the battle sequences in the new Star Trek movie did accomplish what they were meant to do.

Okay. On this we can agree. I like Lost, for instance. Also pretty much everything Joss Whedon's ever done.

I just don't see anything at all in this movie that promises that kind of potential.

On a side note: I like Lost as well, at least, up until the 3rd season or so when things started to get silly. I might re-watch it all from the beginning, though.

However, Lost is a good example of the kind of storytelling that my first point is trying to illustrate: You're given a boatload of questions and most of them never really get answered. And the answers you do get, aren't spoonfed to you. You'll have to figure them out for yourself, based on clues you're given. Thats a good way to tell a story; it gets your brain working.

And while the new Star Trek movie didn't have a lot of time to get into that stuff (the whole 'get together' plot did take up more then half the movie, after all -- it needed to), in my eyes it did show potential:

It doesn't give you all the answers. Scenes evoke what they are supposed to evoke -- The Kelvin-battle was chaotic, the loss of Jim's mother was stomach-wrenching and the sense of excitement and wonder at the end was inspiring.

And, it had no reset button. Whatsoever.

That is the single most promising thing about this movie yet. No reset button means consequences. People, events, the universe, they will all be changed forever. It leaves story-threads dangling and it leaves the viewer wanting for more.

]Well, I don't think the mass audience is as dumb (or at least impatient) as Paramount seems to believe. If it really is, though, and if maximizing audience has to trump fidelity to the material, then frankly we're in a no-win scenario, because Trek designed to sell to that audience is no better than no Trek at all.

I agree: I don't think you can say Star Trek is designed for an audience that's dumb at all.

I do think you can say Star Trek is designed for a younger audience -- with a shorter attention span, perhaps -- that yearns for optimism, mysteries and a bright future just like the generation TOS catered to.

Yes, this movie could have had more substance. But that would have driven future fans away; they don't want to be bogged down with all that crap. They want to find it all out by themselves, not be spoon fed with it! Future fans that, now they've seen the movie, would like to see the next. And thus become the future us.

Some of them, 40 years from now, will even become those cranky people who bitch and moan that the 'New New Star Trek' isn't like today's Star Trek. :D
 
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1. STII The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek (2009)
3. ST IV The Voyage Home
4. ST III The Search for Spock
5. First Contact
6. ST V The Final Frontier
7 Star Trek The Motion Picture
8. ST The Undiscovered Country
9 Generations
10 Insurrection
11. About 400 other movies
12. Nemesis
 
1. STII The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek (2009)
3. ST IV The Voyage Home
4. ST III The Search for Spock
5. First Contact
6. ST V The Final Frontier
7 Star Trek The Motion Picture
8. ST The Undiscovered Country
9 Generations
10 Insurrection
11. About 400 other movies
12. Nemesis


I have yet to see the movie, I will this afternoon, but i have a feeling this is going to be my ranking as well. I'd probably switch your 4 and 5 around as well as 7 and 8.
 
over the years I've come to like some more than I used to and some less than I used to.

but for right now, here goes:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. New Trek
3. Undiscovered Country
4. motion picture (director's cut)
5. voyage home
6. search for spock
7. first contact
8. generations
9. final frontier
10. nemesis
11. insurrection

but again this may change. I admit final frontier is a guilty pleasure, simply because it has the characters I love. TMP really grew on me over the years as I gained appreciation for such films as 2001. it was truly epic, but slow paced.
 
After one viewing, here's where I am:

1. FC
2. TWOK
3. ST2009
4. TUC
5. TVH
6. TSFS
7. NEM
8. INS
9. GEN
10. TMP
11. TFF
 
The eleven Trek movies, as I rank them:

TWOK
TUC
Nemesis
Generations
TSFS
TVH
XI
TFF
First Contact
Insurrection
TMP
 
1. The Voyage Home
2. First Contact
3. Star Trek
4. The Wrath of Khan
5. The Undiscovered Country
6. Nemesis
7. The Search For Spock
8. Generations
9. The Motion Picture
10. Insurrection
11. The Final Frontier
 
1. The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. First Contact
5. The Voyage Home
6. The Search for Spock
7. Generations
8. The Motion Picture
9. Insurrection
10. The Final Frontier
11. Nemesis
 
Well, right now, it's kinda leaning towards replacing Nemesis as my #1. And I loved Nemesis, but this just kicked ******* ass :D

1. Star Trek
2. Nemesis
3. The Voyage Home
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. Insurrection
7. The Search For Spock
8. The Final Frontier
9. Generations
10. First Contact
11. The Motion Picture
 
As a production, the new movie simply blows the rest of the Franchise out of the water.

Agreed. Finally, Trek actually feels like a movie by today's standards, an area that the TNG movie franchise was desperately lacking in and oblivious to.
 
As a Trek film I'm not sure, but as a what-if, never happened, exists in it's own continuity, artistic liberty taking film, I would actually rank it quite highly.
 
As a Trek film, I'd rank this #1 because it's the only movie I felt that was actually cinema material. The other Trek films are long episodes.
 
I don't know. I like to think the movies in three groups.

Group 1 would be the movies That hit on most, if not all, cylinders for me and include:

TWOK
TSFS
TVH

Group 2 include movies that miss on some levels for me, but still have good Star Trek moments:

TMP
TUC
FC
TFF
GEN

Group 3 are just, IMO, bad Trek movies all around. No merit:

INS
NEM

And I have to say "Star Trek 09" is a Group 1 movie all the way!
 
1) Khan
2) Undiscovered Country
3) Search for Spock
4) First Contact
5) "Star Trek"
6) Generations
7) Voyage Home
8) Final Frontier
9) Motion Picture
10) Nemesis
11) Insurrection
 
And as a general rule, I like a story that takes the time to explain what's going on. (Or at least explain enough to make it clear that the writers have thought through the logic of it all—something clearly not the case in this film.)
That might be simple preference; I'd rather leave some of the mystery in place. How can you enjoy a good story, if you cannot draw your own conclusions based on the few facts you've been given?
Hence my caveat about what the writers know. I don't need everything spoon-fed to me, no... but I do need the impression that it can at least potentially make sense, that it's been thought through. The gaping plot holes in this film (as I discuss at some length on my blog, and on this forum's main review thread) make it clear that's just not so here.

And the occasional standout episode like "Balance of Terror" aside, Trek was never really about action and battles. It was about science fiction, and the allegorical stories SF can tell, and most decent SF isn't battle-driven.
All right, I can agree with you on that; SF is not battle-driven. But battles do feature in a lot of it; most SciFi (and dare I say it even Star Trek) is not strictly SciFi (think about movies like A Space Oddesey or Contact or even E.T. -- those are pure SciFi imo) but also part 'Space Opera'.

...Space battles can not be realistically shown on screen. Ships would be miles away from each other and indeed, those battles would be more like old Star Trek. But they would be unbelievably boring. So, we expect battles as we know them today: chaotic circumstances, lots of people yelling through each other and a Captain that has to try and get some sort of order out of all that chaos and still be able to decide on the right course of action.
So if I understand you correctly, you're saying you'd rather have dramatic battles than plausible ones? What's wrong with just backgrounding the battle stuff and focusing on a different kind of story overall? (Look at what nuBSG did... it started out in S1 with lots of space dogfights, like people expected from the original show, but very quickly went in a much more sophisticated, political and psychological direction. Can you honestly imagine nuTrek, as set up here, following such a course?)

Okay. On this we can agree. I like Lost, for instance. Also pretty much everything Joss Whedon's ever done.

I just don't see anything at all in this movie that promises that kind of potential.
On a side note: I like Lost as well, at least, up until the 3rd season or so when things started to get silly. I might re-watch it all from the beginning, though.

However, Lost is a good example of the kind of storytelling that my first point is trying to illustrate: You're given a boatload of questions and most of them never really get answered.
Sounds like you may have given up at the wrong point. S2 and S3 were uneven, yes... but once the producers were given a definite end date to work toward so they could stop vamping for time, S4 and S5 have really picked up their game. And lots of those lingering questions are being answered, in dramatic and fascinating ways.

Even during its slow periods, though, I never doubted that the writing team behind Lost had a clear sense of how the puzzle pieces fitted together. By way of contrast, you could look at Heroes... which had an interesting start, but went off the rails when the writers clearly started making things up as they went along, often undermining details of plot and theme that they themselves had set up earlier.

Well, I don't think the mass audience is as dumb (or at least impatient) as Paramount seems to believe. If it really is, though, and if maximizing audience has to trump fidelity to the material, then frankly we're in a no-win scenario, because Trek designed to sell to that audience is no better than no Trek at all.
I agree: I don't think you can say Star Trek is designed for an audience that's dumb at all.

I do think you can say Star Trek is designed for a younger audience -- with a shorter attention span, perhaps...

Yes, this movie could have had more substance. But that would have driven future fans away; they don't want to be bogged down with all that crap.
Your last sentence here really seems to undermine your "not dumb" remark, unless I'm misunderstanding something...
 
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