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Where was the TOS engine room?

Obvious to who?

Wrong question. "Obvious in which context?" would be the right one...

And the answer is "In the context where person A suggests that 3F 129 denotes a space on deck 3 and person B wonders where he got the 3 from".

I mean, I didn't understand why you thought I was doing some interpreting of the letter F as denoting "floor" or something to justify the idea that the 3 meant deck 3. I (obviously) just meant that the 3 meant deck 3, no justification offered. That the 3 stands for deck 3 is not obvious as such, of course; only my belief is.

It holds together well enough: Deck 3 could well be where both McCoy and Rand live, while Deck 5 could be where McCoy works. None of this is contradicted in the show, at any rate (the idea that Sickbay should be on Deck 7 instead is noncanonical, at least for TOS).

Is there still more signage of that sort, perhaps something that could be used as counterevidence for the "first number identifies deck, first letter gives section" theory?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I'm going to pretend I could never read those signage plates.
Marvelous detail on a 1960's 20 inch RCA CRT, but pretty distracting if we are slaves to it.
 
Looks like I'm a little late getting back to the party? No matter...

So, Mirror quarters, and not necessarily the same as the regular ones.

Hah, touché I knew you were gonna come back with that!

And other incarnations of Trek (as well as many real-world counterparts) have deck numbers painted on the walls of the corridors with man-sized lettering...

Actually, this was part of the method to my madness, I should have mentioned in my earlier post. In my scheme, I assume that every section or so, there'd be a large "painted on" number denoting the deck level you're on, maybe near a turbo-lift, probably just above the door?
In any event "real-world counterparts" don't have computerized turbo-lifts that can take where you want to go when you say "thermocobobulater room, deck X", so in trek there's less need for specific deck #'s on wall plagues? YMMV of course.

And CRA, nobody is disputing that these are more or less random numbers, that should go without saying (I thought)? I, for one, was just trying to have a little fun seeing if we could make some sense outa what we got. But I agree with Timo, the more examples we have, the more likely we can cobble something together that might make at least a little sense?
 
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The trouble with putting the senior officer's quarters on deck 3 is space - you've got the outline of the teardrop and that's about it! Using FJ's prints as a guide (the teardrop is a little wrong, but it serves our purpose):

deck3FJ.jpg




Once you get outside the turbolift you're practically there! Very little space for strolling down the hall, chasing fugitive aliens, fighting in the corridor etc.

Also, Rand said in Charlie X that Rec Room 6 is on deck 3. I'm not saying it couldn't fit (just replace FJ's briefing room with it) but when seen, it appears to be a crew recreation area, not just officers (although Spock is there with his lyre - I really like the 1st season)

Finally, there's Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, from which we learn that deck 3 has Rec Room 3 and a Crewmen's Lounge.

It's a lot to pack in, along with senior officers' quarters! Just sayin' ;)
 
The thing is, you don't see all that much action there in the end. Only recreation facilities are quoted as being on that deck - which is consistent with the TMP refit where some sort of a high-windowed lobby comprises the aft half of Deck 3.

Also, TMP establishes that the ship has a huge, three-story recreation facility with two turbolifts running down against the (forward?) bulkhead. Those turbolifts are arranged very suggestively like the two lifts running down from the bridge, perhaps following the central core of the vessel.

Add to this the fact that in "Let That Be", Recreation Room Three was said to be a facility the two goons would pass twice - once on Deck 3, then again on Deck 5 - and it all starts to fit together pretty well. Both the TOS and TMP ships could have had the same sort of extensive recreation facilities, vital for long deep space journeys: a three-deck, all-crew cavity on ship centerline aft of the central core, spanning either Decks 4 through 6 or Decks 5 through 7 (the only place where that facility would fit!), plus an annex on Deck 3 for crew entertainment, with a possible separate officers' lounge (to match the dialogue of "Let That Be" and the jury-rigged sets of TMP).

The rest of Deck 3 could indeed be nothing but top officer accommodation, with possible centrally located briefing rooms or (as Mr Scott's suggests, perhaps as per Probert's original plans) a galley serving the rec facilities. The action would take place along a curved corridor most of the time, even though the "real" curve would be a bit tighter than the set used for portraying it. One could still fit something like six officer-standard cabins on the forward part of Deck 3, and perhaps four more luxurious spaces on Deck 2, possibly including the facility that Pike used in "The Cage". And one would have a staircase, which would be located forward of the core so that the two idiots who couldn't "Let That Be" would have to run in circles looking for it after their turbolift was successfully jammed on Deck 3 by our heroes or by their mutual hostile acts.

And that'd be it. There would be no "functionalities" in the superstructure below the bridge, just a two-deck-high bubble divided into accommodating key officers and possible guests. Of course, even that might be too much space for our brave Captains and Commanders, so some of the luxuries could later be replaced by instrumentation (such as the extra phaser seen in TAS "One of Our Plants Is Missing, Alert the Botany Department and Arrest Beauregard!").

Timo Saloniemi
 
The was no mention of alphabetically marked decks in TMP, that was TWOK. I believe the only deck number mentioned in that film is when the Intruder Alert alarm sounds and Chekov reports, "Deck 5m Captain. Officer's quarters!" And Kirk says to have security, "meet me at deck five, main elevator."

There's also when Kirk, Decker, and McCoy head down to Kirk's cabin for the reaming after the asteroid incident. After stepping into the turbolift, Kirk says, "Deck 5."

Oops, I forgot that. But he says, "Level five." ;) Good catch.
 
...Also, TMP establishes that the ship has a huge, three-story recreation facility with two turbolifts running down against the (forward?) bulkhead. Those turbolifts are arranged very suggestively like the two lifts running down from the bridge, perhaps following the central core of the vessel...
That's a compelling argument, and it also jangles nicely with my own pet theory that the massive TMP rec room wasn't anywhere near the saucer rim (where we all know it wouldn't fit anyway) and that the eight "windows" were in fact viewscreens.

I hadn't cottoned onto the similarity between the Rec Room lifts and the Bridge lifts though - well spotted!

Although as I said I find Timo's argument compelling, if I may I'd like to postulate my own theory as to what's going on with Bele and Lokai. Here is Spock's line:

Captain, I have located them on ship's sensors. Bele is chasing Lokai on deck three.
(CUT TO THEM RUNNING)
Bele is passing recreation room three, approaching the crewmen's lounge. Lokai is running past the crewmen's lounge
(CUT TO RUNNING)
Lokai has just arrived on deck five.
(CUT TO MORE RUNNING)
Passing recreation room three.
There's enough cuts there (no doubt due to dramatic neccessity) to allow for the passage of more time than we see on screen. It's also therfore possible that when Spock says "Passing recreation room three" that he's not referring to Lokai but to Bele - that's right, Bele is still on Deck 3, running in circles! Certainly the corridors look very similar ;)
 
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That's a compelling argument, and it also jangles nicely with my own pet theory that the massive TMP rec room wasn't anywhere near the saucer rim (where we all know it wouldn't fit anyway) and that the eight "windows" were in fact viewscreens.

Which just happen to match the eight windows on the outside of the ship, and the view seen through them of starboard nacelle also just happens to match the windows. Compelling? No.

I think its funny that fans just can't accept that sets rarely fit into the associated exterior. Is someone going to postulate some other location for Greg's attic room in The Brady Bunch because it couldn't actually fit into the low pitch roof seen in the streetside shots of the house?
 
That's a compelling argument, and it also jangles nicely with my own pet theory that the massive TMP rec room wasn't anywhere near the saucer rim (where we all know it wouldn't fit anyway) and that the eight "windows" were in fact viewscreens.

Which just happen to match the eight windows on the outside of the ship, and the view seen through them of starboard nacelle also just happens to match the windows. Compelling? No.

Good point. Although, wasn't the nacelle added for the Director's Edition and not present in the theatrical version?

As for the rectangular windows, where do these other rectangular ones fit in as they don't look like they were part of the rec dec set (different hull supports)?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=342&page=4
 
The nacelle was on a giant painted backdrop outside the window of the Rec Deck, and features details of the drydock as well. It's not easy to see, but it is there. The nacelle you're thinking about is the one added to the officer's lounge windows scene, and those windows are some of the ones taken from the Rec Deck set when it was struck.
 
The nacelle was on a giant painted backdrop outside the window of the Rec Deck, and features details of the drydock as well. It's not easy to see, but it is there. The nacelle you're thinking about is the one added to the officer's lounge windows scene, and those windows are some of the ones taken from the Rec Deck set when it was struck.

Ah, wow, didn't notice this before:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0549.jpg
 
Exactly my point - the square windows in the officers' lounge are the same size and shape as the ones in the Rec Deck and often explained as being viewscreens - if they can be viewscreens, why can't the ones in the Rec Deck?

Unlike TOS, Andrew Probert went to great lengths to establish a consistent length of the TMP vessel with respect to the models, exterior and interior sets. The Rec Room was the most obvious exception because the production designer felt that "bigger was better"
 
Which is why I don't think Probert would be wronged by us interpreting the Rec Deck as a saucer centerline facility. We'd just be doing the Sam Beckett thing there, as three lefts do make a right...

Although I do love the idea of Bele running in circles! ;)

Timo Saloniemi
 
The intent was that the eight windows outside match those inside the Rec Deck set. That's why they're there. If anyone wants to imagine that the room is elsewhere, they're obviously free to do so.
 
Original intent maybe - but how was such a room supposed to fit in the space? Probert had the right idea:

Probert%20Rec%20Deck%202.jpg

(from the forgottentrek web site)
 
The same way all the other sets that don't fit into the exteriors do: THEY DON'T. Hollywood standard design, from sitcoms to Star Trek.
 
I wrote, "all the others that don't fit" not "all others don't fit". There is a difference, smartypants. :)
 
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