There was an intergalactic war on you know.
Where was the Enterprise during the Dominion War?
- Thread starter Trekkie27
- Start date
I don't know why, but I feel like Insurrection was part of the Dominion War more or less.
The Son'a were Dominion allies producing Ketracel White, if I'm not wrong. One of the motivations of Starfleet was likely down to trying to get them onside with Starfleet, rather than helping out the Dominion. And the rejuvenating powers of the Baku planet seem like something that would help with manpower shortages, the Baku were kind of arseholes for not letting the Federation at least set up a hospital or something on the other side of the planet.
I haven't steen Insurrection for a long time but didn't the Son'a became allies of the Dominion after the movie in DS9?
"The Son'a are known to have produced vast quantities of the narcotic ketracel-white"
So any involvement with the Dominion was before Insurrection. Clearly after Insurrection the Son'a weren't allied with anyone.
They didn't say they couldn't. Indeed I got the feeling they'd be happy. Picard was happy with that idea.
The movie doesn't mention for whom the ketracel-white was being produced, though; there is no mention of the Dominion in the war, other than with respect to ongoing negotiations (which probably could not happen after "Statistical Probabilities" and would only resume after the war was unexpectedly concluded).
This is our only mention that the KW might have "narcotic" qualities. There's yer general market for it, then - be it literally as a calming-down substance, or more broadly as a recreational chemical with negative connotations...
The DS9 episode in turn makes no mention on how long the Son'a would have been delivering KW to the Dominion. The alliance might be recent or ages-old. Who knows, perhaps the Son'a who are a refugee species from a refugee species originally were part of the Dominion, and now derive benefits from a contract originally signed by the "grandfather culture". Clearly these Ba'ku folks are technologically advanced, and might actually have crossed from one quadrant to another in their flight from the technocratic-oppressive originating culture. All it takes is time...
Curiously, while there's this urban legend that KW would be difficult to manufacture, possibly even beyond the skills of the UFP, nothing of the sort is actually stated in any episode or movie. So the Son'a are painted as unscrupulous: anybody could do it, but only these guys stoop to it...
Quite. But Dougherty was being lied to that the Son'a needed the whole supply sucked out of the rings; perhaps there was some truth to it, but the prime motivation there seemed to be Rua'fo getting to make the Ba'ku suffer and die. Possibly everybody would have been happy with the rejuvenation spa idea if the truth were known; and possibly the spa is there now, only some plot twist keeps it from being all that effective. Say, LaForge's new eyes never took, as we find out in ST:NEM. Perhaps the effect rapidly goes away once one leaves the planet? It would make massive sense for Rua'fo to lie to Dougherty about the effectiveness of the cure, too...
Timo Saloniemi
We know the Son'a were working with the dominion in Penumbra, with a ketracel white facility of some sort
Clearly the Son'a weren't working with the Dominion before "Emmisary", which puts a maximum length of alliance at 7 years. It's almost certain they didn't start working until the dominion were in the Alpha Quadrant, putting the collaberation at 2 years tops.
"The new facility" suggests there's only one new facilitiy, perhaps the one mentioned in Treachery, Faith and the Great River
Chakoteya.net said:
Clearly the Son'a weren't working with the Dominion before "Emmisary", which puts a maximum length of alliance at 7 years. It's almost certain they didn't start working until the dominion were in the Alpha Quadrant, putting the collaberation at 2 years tops.
"The new facility" suggests there's only one new facilitiy, perhaps the one mentioned in Treachery, Faith and the Great River
Hmh? I'm not quite seeing that. There's a "new" facility, implying "old" ones in unknown numbers, nothing limiting those numbers. The definite article in "Penumbra" comes solely from the fact that this is a known, specific facility - namely, the one at Devos II. Or at least we don't need to think otherwise...
The Alpha Axis was always fighting on the presumption of decisive strikes against key facilities. It always failed: no shipyard or depot or production facility turned out to be decisive in the end. I don't see the Dominion putting all its eggs in one basket in this case, either, not when they still have plenty of star systems to choose from.
The Son'a deal with the Dominion would probably be recent'ish, yes - unless we see it as a continuation of a deal originally made in Gamma. We know the Dominion has some intel on Alpha in "Jem'Hadar" already, but we never learn how this came to be and how extensive it is in terms of spatial or temporal reach; all we get is a minimum estimate (they know the Klingons, they learned of them before speaking to Sisko). Might be the Dominion had feelers here several centuries ago already. Might be its first long range intel was expected to come from the Hundred, centuries after the show. Or then something in between.
Timo Saloniemi
The Alpha Axis was always fighting on the presumption of decisive strikes against key facilities. It always failed: no shipyard or depot or production facility turned out to be decisive in the end. I don't see the Dominion putting all its eggs in one basket in this case, either, not when they still have plenty of star systems to choose from.
The Son'a deal with the Dominion would probably be recent'ish, yes - unless we see it as a continuation of a deal originally made in Gamma. We know the Dominion has some intel on Alpha in "Jem'Hadar" already, but we never learn how this came to be and how extensive it is in terms of spatial or temporal reach; all we get is a minimum estimate (they know the Klingons, they learned of them before speaking to Sisko). Might be the Dominion had feelers here several centuries ago already. Might be its first long range intel was expected to come from the Hundred, centuries after the show. Or then something in between.
Timo Saloniemi
I think suggesting that any contact between the Son'a and the Dominion existed before Emissary is stretching credibility a rather long way. There's no evidence that the dominion were aware of the wormhole before Emissary, they didn't have any ships in the area and didn't do much about the AQ incursions until mid-end season 2.
Clearly they'll have had information on the AQ from traders, perhaps from interrogating prisoners from New Bajor, perhaps from other ships that had gone missing in the previous two years.
Simplest explanation is there was no requirement for ketracell white production, or shipyards, or cloning vats, in the AQ until after the wormhole blockade.
Clearly they'll have had information on the AQ from traders, perhaps from interrogating prisoners from New Bajor, perhaps from other ships that had gone missing in the previous two years.
Simplest explanation is there was no requirement for ketracell white production, or shipyards, or cloning vats, in the AQ until after the wormhole blockade.
Then they probably would have felt like not just television episodes but television episodes of a different series (well X might not have if it was about the aftermath).
It is definitely a leap, yes.
It's just that there are factors that make it more plausible than one would first think. The Dominion is ages-old; it has all the time in the world to reach Alpha long before the wormhole is discovered. Travel across quadrants isn't all that difficult, as evidenced by the travels of the Talaxians in the "Homestead" backstory. All it takes is time. And the Founders aren't timid homebodies. When confronted with the existence of the wormhole, their instinct was to expand through it, rather than to somehow destroy it to protect status quo. To them, domination across the galaxy is the status they want to achieve and then hold...
The white is a characteristically Dominion thing, it seems, since Bashir is so unfamiliar with it despite otherwise being very much up to speed on medical esoteria. That the Son'a engage in its manufacture may speak of unusual familiarity. Or then it just establishes them as thoroughly rotten. They are specifically credited as making "vast quantities" of it; perhaps the average opportunistic villain only made "modest quantities" of it during the war?
Timo Saloniemi
In the middle of the war, I'm not surprised the Enterprise couldn't be spared to warp off to DS9 so they can attend a wedding. It would have been nice to see or mention getting a congratulatory subspace message, but I'm not surprised they left it out. It's a tightly written episode without a whole lot of scenes that don't advance the plot.
DS9 is also something of a sideshow to the war: most of the time, the supposedly all-important wormhole is in fact unusable and thus strategically uninteresting, and while Bajor may be next-door neighbors to the enemy capital, this particular front may be too heavily defended to be a practical attack route for either party (think Washington vs. Richmond in a continent-wide Civil War).
But "You Are Cordially Invited" is actually both an interesting lull in the action, and a rare moment for DS9 to bask in spotlights. The station has just been retaken, the 9th Fleet has moved in, folks clearly are still undecided on whether the Prophetic Intervention makes the wormhole strategically worthless or not, and all of UFP no doubt is interested in celebrating the rare victory. If the E-E is an important ship, then having her visit the place might make propagandist sense.
Then again, we don't know if the E-E really is an important ship (in ST:FC, she's considered worthless in the fight against the Borg, say). But we also don't know whether the E-E has visited DS9 or not: it has been a week since the big victory. Perhaps there were hugs all around already?
The wedding has been a surefire thing for quite a while already when "You Are Cordially Invited" opens. It's just news that it will happen RIGHT NOW. Perhaps too little reaction time for congratulations from everybody? Or then it's the opposite. The original plan was to get married after the war, but the big victory might have set up false hopes, and Picard and folks may have given their condolences the previous week already, thinking it's a matter of just some (very hectic) months anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
But "You Are Cordially Invited" is actually both an interesting lull in the action, and a rare moment for DS9 to bask in spotlights. The station has just been retaken, the 9th Fleet has moved in, folks clearly are still undecided on whether the Prophetic Intervention makes the wormhole strategically worthless or not, and all of UFP no doubt is interested in celebrating the rare victory. If the E-E is an important ship, then having her visit the place might make propagandist sense.
Then again, we don't know if the E-E really is an important ship (in ST:FC, she's considered worthless in the fight against the Borg, say). But we also don't know whether the E-E has visited DS9 or not: it has been a week since the big victory. Perhaps there were hugs all around already?
The wedding has been a surefire thing for quite a while already when "You Are Cordially Invited" opens. It's just news that it will happen RIGHT NOW. Perhaps too little reaction time for congratulations from everybody? Or then it's the opposite. The original plan was to get married after the war, but the big victory might have set up false hopes, and Picard and folks may have given their condolences the previous week already, thinking it's a matter of just some (very hectic) months anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
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