Where was the Enterprise during the Dominion War?

[Destructor]

What's the point in having such an advances ship and experienced Captain if you aren't prepared to put them in harm's way?

There's actually historical precedence for this, too. When a soldier had a big victory in a war, he was often shipped home as a way to 'promote the war' and raise funds. Sure, his skills would be useful on the frontline- but not nearly as useful as his fame and continued existence would be.

 

[captcalhoun]

cf John Basilone, Guadalcanal in WWII. as seen in HBO's The Pacific.

 

[Christopher]

There's actually historical precedence for this, too. When a soldier had a big victory in a war, he was often shipped home as a way to 'promote the war' and raise funds. Sure, his skills would be useful on the frontline- but not nearly as useful as his fame and continued existence would be.

Which has been offered in some sources as the reason Kirk was promoted to a desk job after the 5-year mission.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Pat Tillman (posthumously)

 

[Captaindemotion]

What's the point in having such an advances ship and experienced Captain if you aren't prepared to put them in harm's way?

There's actually historical precedence for this, too. When a soldier had a big victory in a war, he was often shipped home as a way to 'promote the war' and raise funds. Sure, his skills would be useful on the frontline- but not nearly as useful as his fame and continued existence would be.

But this was a war for the Federation's - indeed, the Alpha Quadrant's - survival. Taking a state of the art ship and brilliant captain out of the way to do PR? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Christopher]

I always figured that what we saw in the start of Insurrection, the Enterprise being run ragged dealing with diplomatic missions and welcoming new members into the Federation, was its contribution to the war effort. A big part of winning a war is diplomacy, gaining allies and material support. The American Revolution would never have been won if not for Benjamin Franklin's diplomatic brilliance in persuading France to back the revolutionaries with money, troops, and weapons. And Jean-Luc Picard is the Federation's top diplomat, so he's the one that would logically be entrusted with such an important job.

Of course, that doesn't explain why he had the Enterprise and its usual crew with him. The comment above was right -- it would make more sense if the command crew had been spread around and given their own commands. But that's poetic license for you.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I can agree that the Enterprise shouldn't have been doing all these milk run assignments but I must question the idea that Picard is the federation's top diplomat. Did he inherit that position after Sarek died or something? Picard is a skilled diplomat but the Federation has lots of professional diplomats.

 

[BrotherBenny]

I can agree that the Enterprise shouldn't have been doing all these milk run assignments but I must question the idea that Picard is the federation's top diplomat. Did he inherit that position after Sarek died or something? Picard is a skilled diplomat but the Federation has lots of professional diplomats.

Remember the bulk of the diplomatic corps "are busy with Dominion negotiations" leaving other diplomats, like Picard, to do the heavy lifting.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Starfleet's top diplomat, I'd say.

While I can see the logic of Christopher's argument, I still think that Picard's skills as a military and strategic commander would outweigh those as diplomat or ambassador, particularly in the circumstances of the DW. But, I suppose we have to take into account the realities of making a spin-off tv series. The DW took place during Deep Space 9 - that show just wasn't going to be hijacked by the cast of its predecessor, no matter how illustrious that crew and their ship. So the ENT-E got to sit it out.

 

[Christopher]

^Starfleet's top diplomat, I'd say.

Yes, and Starfleet is the organization at the vanguard of contact with other races; that's part of its mandate. So Starfleet's top diplomat is the Federation's top diplomat by default. (And by "top" I mean best, most successful, most effective in practice, not highest in rank or official status.)

While I can see the logic of Christopher's argument, I still think that Picard's skills as a military and strategic commander would outweigh those as diplomat or ambassador, particularly in the circumstances of the DW.

Picard is far more experienced as a diplomat and explorer than he is as a warrior. And as I said, it's a mistake to assume that combat skills are invariably more important in war than diplomatic skills. Diplomacy is more important to the big picture, to the final resolution of a war and what happens after it.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think Jean-Luc himself would be the first person to say that he would consider himself a diplomat and explorer than a military strategist. Picard might have combat accomplishments and decorations but those are out of necessity to where he is concerned.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Picard was much more at home as an explorer and a diplomat. He saw combat as a failure of diplomacy.

Was Picard ever referred to as a top diplomat? I'm assuming that Christopher is making that assumption and I would be hard pressed to disagree with it although it's certainly possible that other Captains could be better diplomats. It's not like we saw even 1% of Starfleet's captains and when we did it wasn't in a diplomatic situation. Just wondering if there was a line of dialog to suggest Picard's standing.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I believe there is a line and someone can help me out here that Picard has made first contact with a number of dozen of different species. The scene in at the start of "Insurrection" the negotiations on the planet with the Arda woman or whatever her name was. Trust me, Christopher's not one to make assumptions lol, that's more my thing lol.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I know Christopher is quite through. That's why I'm wondering if there was a line spoken by, say, an admiral in regard to Picard's standing as a diplomat.

 

[Stevil2001]

I find it somewhat hard to believe that there aren't civilian members of the Federation Diplomatic Corps with more skill in this regard, ambassadors who've trained their entire lives to do this sort of thing and who possess staffs to assist them. Starfleet may dominate first contacts, but I doubt that a first contact is very much like convincing someone to throw their resources into the war you are losing.

 

[JD]

I don't remember for sure, but I'm pretty sure there was reference to Starfleet wanting to send Picard somewhere because he was one of their top diplomats. I don't remember for sure if he was the top diplomat, but he is definitely up there.

 

[Christopher]

Remember, we saw a number of episodes where Starfleet sent Picard, specifically, to achieve some difficult diplomatic feat, like the negotiations he completed at the start of "Captain's Holiday." And we're also talking about the only human to become a Klingon Arbiter of Succession -- that's one hell of a diplomatic feat, in terms of the reputation and fame it would give him if nothing more.

Sure, you can argue that in principle there should be more prominent diplomats, but hypotheticals don't trump what's in the show. TNG came to be a show that was very much about politics and diplomacy, and it wasn't about Ambassador So-and-So, it was about Jean-Luc Picard and his crew. So by the nature of series storytelling, Picard became the most important diplomat around. Yes, maybe it's not the most realistic scenario, but it's the fact on the ground, and the best we can do is rationalize it.

 

[Cybersnark]

There's also the fact that Picard is both a diplomat and a warrior as the need arises (indeed, I'd argue that his success with the Klingons owes as much to his combat prowess as to his diplomacy --they are Klingons, after all). It would spare Starfleet from sending a diplomat and then having to put together a properly-trained security detachment (or worse, have the diplomat get killed when things inevitably go pear-shaped).

 

[kkozoriz1]

There's also the fact space is freaking huge. Picard may not have been the best diplomat of all the captains but he was the best in the area that could handle the situation at that time. If Picard had been on the far side of the Fedeartion K'Empec might have chosen some other captain. He was looking for someone neutral. Just because the stories we see concern the same crew every time doesn't mean that they are vastly superior to everyone else in Starfleet.

 

[JD]

Now there I would have to disagree with you. They made it pretty clear during TNG that the Enterprise was one of the best ships in the fleet. There were numerous references to the fact that the Enterprise was pretty much the dream assignment of everyone in Starfleet. Not to mention all of the times that the Enterprise was sent on a high profile mission because it was the Enterprise.