"Where Silence Has Lease": Nagilum's observations

[Ragitsu]

Good afternoon.

Has anyone here tried directly linking each of Nagilum's final observations about humanity to the actions of the Enterprise-D crew?

You seem to find no tranquility in anything. You struggle against the inevitable. You thrive on conflict. You are selfish, yet you value loyalty. You are rash, quick to judge, slow to change. It's amazing you've survived. Be that as it may, as species, we have no common ground. You are too aggressive. Too hostile. Too militant.

• Finds no tranquility in anything.
• Struggles against the inevitable.
• Thrives on conflict.
• Selfish while valuing loyalty.
• Rash.
• Quick to judge.
• Slow to change.
• Aggressive.
• Hostile.
• Militant.

One that leaps out to me years later is the selfishness bit: Haskell insists to Picard that the Enterprise-D make a break for the star fix despite the fact that they'd be leaving two of their comrades behind.

 

[Dukhat]

One that leaps out to me years later is the selfishness bit: Haskell insists to Picard that the Enterprise-D make a break for the star fix despite the fact that they'd be leaving two of their comrades behind.

You'd have to provide context for this statement, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Never mind, I just read the episode transcript. Haskell (the navigator of the week) just seems to be doing his job by informing Picard that there's a way to escape but that they have to take it right then. I don't read any selfishness in his actions.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Worf was certainly aggressive in making his point that a shipt has "one Bridge, one Riker." But he's not human.

 

[Ragitsu]

You'd have to provide context for this statement, as I have no idea what you're talking about.

While Worf and Riker are exploring the false Yamato, the as-of-yet unseen Nagilum provides a tantalizing exit in the form of a hole in the void; at this point, not only does the Enterprise's transporter fail to establish a lock on both men, but the tractor beam is unable to tow the Yamato. The choice is obvious: leave and desert your comrades or stay and relinquish the option for escape. Haskell (an Ensign at the conn) mentions the "star fix" (i.e., the space visible through the hole), Picard makes it clear that he sees it and then the aforementioned complications/convenient failures crop up. Eventually, the hole begins to close in on itself and Haskell becomes insistent that they seize the opportunity to flee; Picard vociferously denies the Ensign and Miles O'Brien is finally able to transport Riker plus Worf back. Once everyone is safely on board, the hole finally disappears.

Edit: Never mind, I just read the episode transcript. Haskell (the navigator of the week) just seems to be doing his job by informing Picard that there's a way to escape but that they have to take it right then. I don't read any selfishness in his actions.

(Everything suddenly comes back on)
DATA: We've regained ship's communication, sir.
HASKELL: (a red shirt who has suddenly replaced Wesley) Captain, I have a star fix.
PICARD: On screen.
HASKELL: It's an opening, sir.
DATA: Confirm, sir. Navigation is possible.
HASKELL: Should I set a course?
PICARD: Transporter room, do you have a fix on the away team?
O'BRIEN [OC]: Negative, Captain.
PICARD: Damn.

HASKELL: Captain, the star fix is fading.
PICARD: DATA, lock on to the Yamato with a tractor beam. We leave together.
DATA: I cannot make the lock, sir.
HASKELL: Captain, the star fix is almost gone.
PICARD: Let it go.
HASKELL: But, sir, we can get out.
PICARD: Let it go.

To me, he came across as undeniably insistent. What the script doesn't convey is the urgency in his voice; he clearly knows that they'll be leaving men behind and he doesn't seem to care.

 

[Dukhat]

To me, he came across as undeniably insistent. What the script doesn't convey is the urgency in his voice; he clearly knows that they'll be leaving men behind and he doesn't seem to care.

Sorry, I'm not reading that at all. The guy is just giving Picard a sitrep. He's a Starfleet officer whose ship in trapped and he's informing his commanding officer that there's a way out despite the possibility that doing so will leave two crewmembers behind. The guy is thinking of the ship, not individual people. That's not being selfish. I think you're reading too much into something that isn't really there.

 

[Ragitsu]

Sorry, I'm not reading that at all. The guy is just giving Picard a sitrep. He's a Starfleet officer whose ship in trapped and he's informing his commanding officer that there's a way out despite the possibility that doing so will leave two crewmembers behind. The guy is thinking of the ship, not individual people. That's not being selfish. I think you're reading too much into something that isn't really there.

Keep in mind that he's then killed in a disturbing fashion. I can't help but wonder if he was meant to come across as slightly unsympathetic. Anyhow...if you disagree with my interpretation, that's all right; I am open to other points of view on what Nagilum meant when he said "You are selfish, yet you value loyalty.".

 

[Dukhat]

Well, Haskell died because he conveniently replaced Wesley at the station, and because he was wearing a red shirt (you didn't think Nagilum was going to kill Wesley, did you? ), not because of anything he said or did. He was just the expendable crewperson of the week.

And it's ironic that Nagilum accuses humanity of being aggressive and hostile, and yet performs an aggressive and hostile act by killing someone.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Good afternoon.

Has anyone here tried directly linking each of Nagilum's final observations about humanity to the actions of the Enterprise-D crew?

• Finds no tranquility in anything.
• Struggles against the inevitable.
• Thrives on conflict.
• Selfish while valuing loyalty.
• Rash.
• Quick to judge.
• Slow to change.
• Aggressive.
• Hostile.
• Militant.

One that leaps out to me years later is the selfishness bit: Haskell insists to Picard that the Enterprise-D make a break for the star fix despite the fact that they'd be leaving two of their comrades behind.

Love this episode.

It's interesting that there are apparently no direct connections between Nagilum's observations and the behavior of the crew of the Enterprise-D.

It's a bit different if one looks at Michael Burnham. Almost all points that Nagilum mentions are true in regard to her ( with the exception of being hostile and militant most of the time).

And by the way, i guess we haven't seen Nagilum for the last time

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/my-main-suspects-for-the-anomaly.309787/unread

 

[Vger23]

Nagilum was a dick. Fuk what that guy thinks of us.

 

[Dukhat]

And by the way, i guess we haven't seen Nagilum for the last time

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/my-main-suspects-for-the-anomaly.309787/unread

Yes, we have. No matter how much you want to wish this to be true, no matter how many times you post it, doesn't in fact make it true or increase its chances of actually happening.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Yes, we have. No matter how much you want to wish this to be true, no matter how many times you post it, doesn't in fact make it true or increase its chances of actually happening.

Why are you so sure? Could of course be that you are right and the anomaly hasn't anything to do with Nagilum at all, but the possibility is there and still exists.

Not everyone dislikes this episode and we don't know what the Discovery writers think of it, or do you know more about their opinions and plans?

 

[Dukhat]

Why are you so sure? Could of course be that you are right and the anomaly hasn't anything to do with Nagilum at all, but the possibility is there and still exists.

The possibility that Brian Brophy created the anomaly also exists, but I don't seriously think he did it. You are of course welcome to your opinions, but there comes a time when you have to seriously think about what you're actually saying, and understand when the majority of people don't agree with you. There's no possible way Nagilum caused the anomaly because Nagilum has nothing to do with the story they are telling. He was just a one-off asshole alien that nobody cares about, least of all the present DSC viewing audience who have no idea who he even is, and wouldn't care if they did. The DSC writers making Nagilum the cause for the anomaly is the stupidest, most idiotic thing they could possibly do. What payoff does Nagilum give the characters, or the audience? Sometimes a crazy theory is just a crazy theory that shouldn't be propagated as some sort of truth like you just did by hijacking the OP's thread to make it look like your theory is an actual fact.

 

[Vger23]

I don't really care either way, but I'm with @Dukhat on this one.

There's as much of a chance that Jason Vigo created the anomoly as there is that Nagilum is involved.

And Jason Vigo would probably be more interesting at this point. So...I'm not sure whey it's even a thing. It's basically a Mad Libs game of saying <insert name of any inane one-of Star Trek character/entity/whatever here> is responsible for the anomaly.

"Oooohhhhh cool! J'Onn from Star Trek V created the anomoly!!! I betcha I'm right!! Woo hoooo!"

 

[Ragitsu]

Relax, guys.

 

[Dukhat]

Relax, guys.

Welcome to the TrekBBS. Nobody relaxes here.

 

[Vger23]

Relax, guys.

I'm super relaxed. Thanks for the unsolicited advice, though!

 

[Mojochi]

"Is it also true that you have only a limited existence?"
"Your minds call it death".

For it to already know about their life cycle a bit, & that they call it death, means Nagilum is basing its assessment of them on more than just observations of what they did or how they behaved. It is likely in some way telepathically reading their thoughts

That could give it more than enough knowledge base to make the subsequent judgments of them.

 

[Ragitsu]

"Is it also true that you have only a limited existence?"
"Your minds call it death".

For it to already know about their life cycle a bit, & that they call it death, means Nagilum is basing its assessment of them on more than just observations of what they did or how they behaved. It is likely in some way telepathically reading their thoughts

That could give it more than enough knowledge base to make the subsequent judgments of them.

Picard: "Oh, Nagilum, if you would be so kind, would you mind telling me who exactly is selfish? I have crew evaluations coming up and extra insight always helps."

 

[Mojochi]

I'm sure plenty of them have some selfish tendencies. The real question to ask yourself is can we accept Nagilum as a reliable judge? I mean what could be more selfish, aggressive, & conflictual than mortally toying with intelligent beings to satisfy your curiosities, & then rashly passing judgement on them thereafter? Nagilum is a hypocritical asshole.

 

[Ragitsu]

The comparison that comes up (and was hinted at in this episode) is that of scientists performing tests on laboratory animals...tests that occasionally result in the death of a subject.