Where No Man Has Gone Before

[TrickyDickie]

With all the talk about Trek getting darker in tone as the years go by, what about the beginning? What about this story, the second pilot that sold the show to NBC? Doesn't it have quite a dark tone? Gary Mitchell gets changed and starts killing his fellow shipmates. That suggests dark threats out in the galaxy, right from the get-go. And this is not even bringing other races like the Klingons and Romulans into things yet. This was just something that was able to turn humans against one another. With threats of that magnitude, and the need to respond to them, it seems like that would have had an effect on optimism and tempered it.

I think that people take Gene Roddenberry's vision too far when they criticize DS9 and Discovery and other Trek. Rather than contradicting the vision, I think they push the pendulum back toward the center, and balance, rather than pulling it to the other extreme.

Was Gary Mitchell completely altered? Or were certain elements already present deep down in his character brought to the surface and highly magnified?

It might have been a bit more interesting for TFF to have gone back to the edge, instead of the center, and tied back to this story.

 

[Butters]

Early trek was plenty dark, Ive often wonder if the revisionists have actually watched the show, or if they’ve just latched on this Gene’s vision thing and believe that if they repeat it enough it will become true.

 

[Kor]

TOS had plenty of bleak cosmic horrors. But it wasn't the joyless and hopeless 'grimdark' that's so in vogue these days.

Kor

 

[Pauln6]

I think a lot more characterisation and growth features in modern Trek and they don't shy away from showing post traumatic stress. A show does work better with light and shade and Tilly can't carry it all. Looks like Pike has a sense of humour though.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Was Gary Mitchell completely altered? Or were certain elements already present deep down in his character brought to the surface and highly magnified?
.

I already had a little devil in me. Just a little.

 

[Poltargyst]

I already had a little devil in me. Just a little.

Gary, I have a question for you. Recently I watched Charlie X as part of the production order rewatch, and I mused about the Enterprise dropping Charlie off on Delta Vega. So say you're chilling with the hottie Dr. Dehner, and all of a sudden Charlie is there with you. How do you think you would have gotten along?

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I think I would have buried him. He's a very annoying fellow.

 

[johnnybear]

I think his perception of others was changed along with his body and mind! He no longer saw the crew as his friends but as just annoyances and then later threats to his continued existence! I think Spock mentions something about insects doesn't he?
JB

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I think his perception of others was changed along with his body and mind! He no longer saw the crew as his friends but as just annoyances and then later threats to his continued existence! I think Spock mentions something about insects doesn't he?
JB

No, I mention squashing my shipmates like insects if they get in my way, Spock speaks of white mice.

 

[Commishsleer]

TOS had plenty of bleak cosmic horrors. But it wasn't the joyless and hopeless 'grimdark' that's so in vogue these days.

Kor

I think in DS9 and Discovery they are often playing the no-win scenario or who should we hurt least.
TOS had its fair share of tragedy but it had this optimistic tone, camaraderie, humour lead by Shatner's personality.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS had plenty of bleak cosmic horrors. But it wasn't the joyless and hopeless 'grimdark' that's so in vogue these days.

Kor

A little Tilly makes everything brighter.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I think in DS9 and Discovery they are often playing the no-win scenario or who should we hurt least.
TOS had its fair share of tragedy but it had this optimistic tone, camaraderie, humour lead by Shatner's personality.

... Agreed! Like when Charlie X has done all the bad shite he could get away with on the Enterprise, and when his Alien guardians come along to fetch him, and Charlie's all panic-stricken, Kirk (reluctantly) offers up the question of aren't there other alternatives than having him living on a planet that's creeping him out? And you can see it in Shatner's acting, like Kirk's making a conscious effort, here, to be charitable and diplomatic, even though he's got every reason to want to see Charlie suffer. I've always admired that quality about Kirk.

 

[Poltargyst]

... Agreed! Like when Charlie X has done all the bad shite he could get away with on the Enterprise, and when his Alien guardians come along to fetch him, and Charlie's all panic-stricken, Kirk (reluctantly) offers up the question of aren't there other alternatives than having him living on a planet that's creeping him out? And you can see it in Shatner's acting, like Kirk's making a conscious effort, here, to be charitable and diplomatic, even though he's got every reason to want to see Charlie suffer. I've always admired that quality about Kirk.

I remember Shatner saying something about how he always tried to present Kirk as having a sense of nobility.

This is why the end of NuTrek 09 is a bit jarring. I like the movie, but at the end Kirk mentions rescuing the Romulans, and the Romulan in so many words tells Kirk to go to Hell, so Kirk's like okay, open fire, and they blast the Romulans to smithereens. There is no way Prime Kirk would have done that. I liked that Kirk was strong enough to use force when he had to, but that he had the restraint and mercy to only ever use the minimum amount of force necessary.

 

[Commishsleer]

I remember Shatner saying something about how he always tried to present Kirk as having a sense of nobility.

This is why the end of NuTrek 09 is a bit jarring. I like the movie, but at the end Kirk mentions rescuing the Romulans, and the Romulan in so many words tells Kirk to go to Hell, so Kirk's like okay, open fire, and they blast the Romulans to smithereens. There is no way Prime Kirk would have done that. I liked that Kirk was strong enough to use force when he had to, but that he had the restraint and mercy to only ever use the minimum amount of force necessary.

Of course he says it that way to be cool but I can't understand this complaint about Kirk's actions.
Nero committed genocide. More effective than Hitler. He stated his intention to destroy every planet in the Federation.
If his ship survived he would have had the means to do it.
KIrk had the responsibility to stop the threat.
If Nero had said "yes Kirk save me" and he'd done that and then "lied" and wiped out Earth, Andoria etc would people be saying how noble Kirk was then?

 

[Poltargyst]

Of course he says it that way to be cool but I can't understand this complaint about Kirk's actions.
Nero committed genocide. More effective than Hitler. He stated his intention to destroy every planet in the Federation.
If his ship survived he would have had the means to do it.
KIrk had the responsibility to stop the threat.
If Nero had said "yes Kirk save me" and he'd done that and then "lied" and wiped out Earth, Andoria etc would people be saying how noble Kirk was then?

And I say Prime Kirk would have tried to save the Romulans anyway. Why did he offer help in the first place then?

 

[TrickyDickie]

Delta Vega....

 

[Commishsleer]

And I say Prime Kirk would have tried to save the Romulans anyway. Why did he offer help in the first place then?

I'd say 9/10 times you'd be right.
But there were a few occasions that Kirk's (at least initial) decisions on alien massacres were lto use force. The kiridian cloud, the Denevian parasite, the Gorn, the salt vampire, even the Horta. Sure as soon as Kirk worked out that some of these guys weren't homicidal maniacs he showed mercy.

I think Kirk offered to help Nero not because he thought they could be rehabilitated but because he as an inexperienced cadet thought that that was the right thing to do.

 

[johnnybear]

Do you mean Anton Karidian? But when did he have a cloud?
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

Oops I've mixed up about 4 episode there I meant the dikironium cloud in Obsession.

 

[johnnybear]

Oops I've mixed up about 4 episode there I meant the dikironium cloud in Obsession.

I thought somehow that's what you meant but I had better check just in case it was something to do with your Terran Empire my lady!
JB