Poll Where did Linnis gestate Andrew?

[Lynx]

The events in "Before And After" took place in an alternate reality, therefore any comments about not wanting to prolong the lifespan are irrelevant.

On the other hand, we had the episode "Cold Fire" where it was stated that a prolonging of her lifespan was possible and Kes had no objections to that.

As for Lien's possible involvment in discussions about her character, some people are content with just doing their job and maybe also are to shy to try to push their ideas unto others. If she was fired for simply not being too involved in those debates, then those in charge were even more cruel and stupid than I ever thought they were.

And coming up with ideas and suggestions obviously didn't help either. Just look at Beltran who had almost all of his suggestions turned down.

It was obviously hard for some to please the "gods" no matter what.

I guess hte show was ruled by the "Yngwie Malmsteen syndrome": "We want all of you to come up with ideas and suggestions. But in the end, it will be like WE want, no matter what!"

For your information: Yngwie Malmsteen is a very skilled heavy metal guitarist who also happen to be a total dictator when it comes to other members in his band. In one interview he stated: "I'm really easy to cooperate with. Like in the band, everybody is allowed to come up with ideas and suggestions. But in the end everything will be like I want!"

 

[Sophie74656]

Yeah I guess there's nothing wrong with doing the minimum...if someone is really that shy I wonder why they would go into a public career such as acting. And for the record Jennifer Lien had no hard feelings about her departure from the show. It seems that a few fans are much more upset about Kes leaving than the actress who played her. She accepted her contract ending as a very standard thing that happens more often than not in the acting profession.

In an article appearing in Star Trek: Communicator issue 134, Lien recalled, "I was on for a few seasons, then they asked me to leave. They decided not to renew my contract. I didn't ask why I was not being renewed, I just said 'okay' and moved on."

Jeri Taylor admitted, "These things are never cut-and-dried. It's never one thing. I think Jennifer had a wish to move on, and that coincided with some thinking here. There has not been any rancor or unpleasantness about it.....It was a mutual feeling [....] [Jennifer Lien] just felt her character wasn't going anywhere, so it was a very amicable and mutual decision"

So from thr mouths of those that were actually there...nobody was mistreated, nobody had hard feelings. Those involved took it in stride and moved on. I wish some of her fans would too.

 

[2takesfrakes]

In "Before & After," when Linnis opines that her mum wouldn't want her Life artificially prolonged, the impression I get is that she's referring to Kes' Quality of Life, if it were prolonged. If she were under the impression that Kes could live and live well, Linnis would've probably sided with her Dad on keeping Kes alive, indefinitely. Because, as things are in the show, during that particular piece of business, the EMH has NO idea why Kes' memories are completely gone. He's spinning theories, but he doesn't know. In that kind of climate, I could see Linnis taking the position that her mother wouldn't want to live that way. But Kes is on hand, fortunately, to speak for herself.

 

[Lynx]

Yeah I guess there's nothing wrong with doing the minimum...if someone is really that shy I wonder why they would go into a public career such as acting. And for the record Jennifer Lien had no hard feelings about her departure from the show. It seems that a few fans are much more upset about Kes leaving than the actress who played her. She accepted her contract ending as a very standard thing that happens more often than not in the acting profession.

In an article appearing in Star Trek: Communicator issue 134, Lien recalled, "I was on for a few seasons, then they asked me to leave. They decided not to renew my contract. I didn't ask why I was not being renewed, I just said 'okay' and moved on."

Jeri Taylor admitted, "These things are never cut-and-dried. It's never one thing. I think Jennifer had a wish to move on, and that coincided with some thinking here. There has not been any rancor or unpleasantness about it.....It was a mutual feeling [....] [Jennifer Lien] just felt her character wasn't going anywhere, so it was a very amicable and mutual decision"

So from thr mouths of those that were actually there...nobody was mistreated, nobody had hard feelings. Those involved took it in stride and moved on. I wish some of her fans would too.

I have to say it again: Every time I see the words "mutual decision" and "mutual agreement", I cringe. Because then I know that there's foul play going on.

I could give you tons of examples from the music business about such things which includes backstabbing, jealousy, greed and downright childish actions which have resulted in someone being fired and the management talking about "mutual agreement".

Berman, Braga and Taylor lied from the beginnging and when their original statement didn't went down as expected, they changed it to another lie. So why should I believe them?

As for Jennifer Lien, I guess that one of her worst problems is that she's been too nice and friendly for her own good. Therefore she was an easy victim. They knew that she wouldn't oppose them or reveal their scemes.

 

[Lynx]

In "Before & After," when Linnis opines that her mum wouldn't want her Life artificially prolonged, the impression I get is that she's referring to Kes' Quality of Life, if it were prolonged. If she were under the impression that Kes could live and live well, Linnis would've probably sided with her Dad on keeping Kes alive, indefinitely. Because, as things are in the show, during that particular piece of business, the EMH has NO idea why Kes' memories are completely gone. He's spinning theories, but he doesn't know. In that kind of climate, I could see Linnis taking the position that her mother wouldn't want to live that way. But Kes is on hand, fortunately, to speak for herself.

And all of that happened in an alternate reality.

 

[2takesfrakes]

And don't I know it, sir! This thread is, after all, devoted to a supporting character within that timeline. I was simply responding to Sophie's previous query:

Everybody seems to be assuming that Kes would WANT a longer life. Didn't her daughter in Before and After say that Kes said she didn't want anything done to extend her life?

No fan on these boards loves Kes like you do ... how well I know. But you're not the only one who does love her. But her story was told decades ago. What we got is what we got and nothing's ever going to change that. And some of what we got was a look, in "Before & After," of how Kes might've been written, otherwise, and the possibilities seem interesting.

Harry's involvement in Kes' family is difficult to reconcile ... but outside of this, it's not at all surprising how loved she continued to be, in the new timeline. Tom & Kes really look good together, I almost wish things had gone this route, for them. Hell ... Kyle Reese in TERMINATOR, only had, roughly, 24 hours with the Sarah Conner and look what effect that had on her! He changed her Life. I'm trying to remember what she said, now, in the original thing. "We were only together for a few, short hours ... but, we loved a lifetime's worth." Apply that to Kes & Tom and it's kind of the same deal. Except that ... their kid doesn't $ave the Universe.

 

[Sophie74656]

I have to say it again: Every time I see the words "mutual decision" and "mutual agreement", I cringe. Because then I know that there's foul play going on.

I could give you tons of examples from the music business about such things which includes backstabbing, jealousy, greed and downright childish actions which have resulted in someone being fired and the management talking about "mutual agreement".

Berman, Braga and Taylor lied from the beginnging and when their original statement didn't went down as expected, they changed it to another lie. So why should I believe them?

As for Jennifer Lien, I guess that one of her worst problems is that she's been too nice and friendly for her own good. Therefore she was an easy victim. They knew that she wouldn't oppose them or reveal their scemes.

If you want to believe this that's your issue.

You say one thing, people who were actually there and actually involved say another. I'm believing the people who were actually there over a scorned fanboy spinning his own (in my opinion) outrageous theories about what happened.

 

[Sophie74656]

And don't I know it, sir! This thread is, after all, devoted to a supporting character within that timeline. I was simply responding to Sophie's previous query:No fan on these boards loves Kes like you do ... how well I know. But you're not the only one who does love her. But her story was told decades ago. What we got is what we got and nothing's ever going to change that. And some of what we got was a look, in "Before & After," of how Kes might've been written, otherwise, and the possibilities seem interesting.

Harry's involvement in Kes' family is difficult to reconcile ... but outside of this, it's not at all surprising how loved she continued to be, in the new timeline. Tom & Kes really look good together, I almost wish things had gone this route, for them. Hell ... Kyle Reese in TERMINATOR, only had, roughly, 24 hours with the Sarah Conner and look what effect that had on her! He changed her Life. I'm trying to remember what she said, now, in the original thing. "We were only together for a few, short hours ... but, we loved a lifetime's worth." Apply that to Kes & Tom and it's kind of the same deal. Except that ... their kid doesn't $ave the Universe.

I think Kes and Neelix looked fine together. They were both aliens and that worked for me. Plus I've always thought people focused too much on how Neelix looked saying that he was ugly and such. I never thought that. He didn't look human, but he didn't look terrible in my opinion.

Also in my opinion, if you take away the 9 year lifespan then you take away the only thing that was interesting and unique about her.

 

[Lynx]

If you want to believe this that's your issue.

You say one thing, people who were actually there and actually involved say another. I'm believing the people who were actually there over a scorned fanboy spinning his own (in my opinion) outrageous theories about what happened.

In that case, I would prefer a more neutral source than the people in charge since they were those who created all controversy.

As for my "outrageous theories" or what you call them, you're free to have your own opinion but I'll stick to mine until something shows up which will prove that I'm absolutely wrong.

Also in my opinion, if you take away the 9 year lifespan then you take away the only thing that was interesting and unique about her.

That's also your opinion, which is understandable since you happen to dislike the character.

As I see it, she had a lot more interesting and unique abilities which made the character likeable and interesting.

 

[Sophie74656]

What does the lifespan have to do with liking or disliking the character? Even if I liked the character I woukd still think the short lifespan is an interesting characteristic.

As far as you being proven wrong, as far as I'm concerned you have been proven wrong by Jennifer Lien herself.

 

[Lynx]

What does the lifespan have to do with liking or disliking the character? Even if I liked the character I woukd still think the short lifespan is an interesting characteristic.

As far as you being proven wrong, as far as I'm concerned you have been proven wrong by Jennifer Lien herself.

Let me put it this way: If it was Torres who had a ridiculous short lifespan and were dying in some tear-wrenching drama. Would you find that interesting too?

As for the statements after the firings, I would like to present another example:

When Sasha Alexander, who played Kate Todd in NCIS left the series, it was all clear informtion and clear statements from those involved.

The producers told media that Sasha left because of family reasons and the too hectic scedule for filming of the series.

Sasha Alexander told the media that she decided to leave NCIS during its second season because she wanted to spend time with her then boyfriend - now husband - Carlo Ponti (son of Sophia Loren). He lives and works as a director in Europe. NCIS was in a chaotic period of its production where the cast and crew were working 7 days a week and upwards of a 100 PLUS hours a week and that left no time for travel much less romance/alone time with a boyfriend/family.

Clear statements, no BS about "mutual agreement" and that's something I respect, even if I still hate that they killed off Kate Todd. I did have some thoughts of stop watching the series then but decided to stay with it. Which was a good decision!

But in the Lien case, those in charge first stated that "Lien wanted to leave".
From Lien, there were no comments at all.

Then, when people obvious didn't believe that Lien had left on her own free will, those in charge changed their statement to "We couldn't come up with good stories for the character" which actually hinted that Lien hadn't left of her own free will.
From Lien, still no comments at all.

Later on, Lien did come up with some statements which you quoted. But that was many years after she'd been fired from the show.

I myself was mad as hell when the greedy bastards at a place I worked kicked me out for economical reasons. I was angry for years after that and told the world (well almost) what I thought of them and their decision.

But if people would ask me today about it, I would probably come up with some neutral comment like "Ah never mind, things like that happen" despite the fact that I still think that they made a bad decision which did put me in a difficult economic situation at that time.

 

[Sophie74656]

Yes i would find that interesting as well. In fact there were several times when she died on screen and I always thought Tom's reactions were amazing to watch. This show is a drama after all.

As for everything else....that is your own theories about what happened. I'll stick with believing what Jennifer Lien herself said

 

[2takesfrakes]

I think Kes and Neelix looked fine together. They were both aliens and that worked for me. Plus I've always thought people focused too much on how Neelix looked saying that he was ugly and such. I never thought that. He didn't look human, but he didn't look terrible in my opinion.

Well ... you're in luck, then, because the great majority of Kes' 3 seasons on VOY was spent as Neelix' "sweeting." I may not like it, but Neelix, the Space Hyæna, was the Love of her Life. So, go on ... and savour the sweetness of their pairing. For myself, it is a dish I love not.

Also in my opinion, if you take away the 9 year lifespan then you take away the only thing that was interesting and unique about her.

I disagree ... 100% But what new coal can I throw on that fire, after yay, these many aeons? I've said it all before ... you know? And Lynx, of course, has made even more headway into describing all the many and varied ways that Kes is uniquely special unto herself. But whatever her problems were, or eventually became, Kes was definitely blessed in the Beauty Department.

 

[Sophie74656]

Well ... you're in luck, then, because the great majority of Kes' 3 seasons on VOY was spent as Neelix' "sweeting." I may not like it, but Neelix, the Space Hyæna, was the Love of her Life. So, go on ... and savour the sweetness of their pairing. For myself, it is a dish I love not.

I disagree ... 100% But what new coal can I throw on that fire, after yay, these many aeons? I've said it all before ... you know? And Lynx, of course, has made even more headway into describing all the many and varied ways that Kes is uniquely special unto herself. But whatever her problems were, or eventually became, Kes was definitely blessed in the Beauty Department.

I've never said she wasn't lovely, though I wasnt a fan of the hair (but most hair on Trek is bad)

 

[2takesfrakes]

Yes! Her Andy Warhol wigs were shite. By Kes' last season on the show, though, before the long haired wig came along, her short hair wigs looked much better on her ... nearly flattering. Téa once described Kes as resembling a Cocker Spaniel, in her long-haired phase. And I've never forgotten it ...

 

[Catarina]

Kate got emotional just talking about her. For years. Whether that was because she didn't like the change or if Jen got shafted only Jen knows and chooses to be introverted on the matter.

 

[Lynx]

Yes! Her Andy Warhol wigs were shite. By Kes' last season on the show, though, before the long haired wig came along, her short hair wigs looked much better on her ... nearly flattering. Téa once described Kes as resembling a Cocker Spaniel, in her long-haired phase. And I've never forgotten it ...

I like her hairstyle!

The short hairstyle was perfect. It was a sort of trademark for her.

She looked good in the long hair too but it wasn't the same. She became very ordinary in that, just like any Starfleet female character.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I really wonder why they named him Andrew, it seems very .. plain. And not the name of Harry's dad or anything.

So weird that he exist(ed) yet never did.

 

[Sophie74656]

I really wonder why they named him Andrew, it seems very .. plain. And not the name of Harry's dad or anything.

So weird that he exist(ed) yet never did.

We don't know if it was the name of Harry's dad, or uncle, or friend, or anything

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

We know Harry's parents names, thanks memoryalpha