Poll Where did Linnis gestate Andrew?

[Lynx]

Jennifer Lien's acting talent wasn't up to chops though I'd say she strained badly in Warlord and other than that played a very one note character.

Seven for better or worse saved the show was she brought on for T&A yes but her acting chops made it work.

I think that Lien's acting was excellent. She ded really shine when she was allowed to do so.

Seven didn't "save the show". The show was good enough to stand on its own feet. Besides that, the show had better ratings in seasons 1-3 than it had in seasons 4-7 except for a temporary rise after Seven had just arrived.

As for Ryan, she's a great actress which she did show during the series but the whole "Sexy Seven in a catsuit" thing was a cheap trick from those in charge toattract male teenage viewers to the show.

I like Ryan's character's much better in series like "Boston Public" and that series with this lawyer who I can't remember.

Not to mention her role as one of Gibbs's former wives in my current favorite series NCIS.

 

[Lynx]

What a wasted opportunity for Kes and Jennifer Lien, in how VOY could've really explored, over the course of the entire series, the aging process. We'd see her relationships changing based on that, alone. Much more interesting, actually, would be watching the EMH's attempts at extending her Life. Sort of a Search for the Holy Grail, kind of an attitude. Being so youthful, herself, it makes me wonder how Lien would interpret and colour Kes' attitudes towards her own aging. A lot of Human Drama, there.

Here I have to disagree.
Star Trek is about exploring space and adventures, not some age-related drama like "The Bold And The Beauty" or some other soap opera where a character's aging and death goes on for seasons and become some tear-wrenching drama.

But I like the idea of seeing The Doctor find a way to prolong her lifespan.

 

[Sophie74656]

Here I have to disagree.
Star Trek is about exploring space and adventures, not some age-related drama like "The Bold And The Beauty" or some other soap opera where a character's aging and death goes on for seasons and become some tear-wrenching drama.

But I like the idea of seeing The Doctor find a way to prolong her lifespan.

Star Trek is just as much about character development and drama as it is about space travel.

 

[TigerCat]

I don't know if Ryan was a better actress than Lien generally (I haven't seen Lien in anything else so I can only judge them as Seven and Kes) but to me it seemed that Kes was a little rounder as a character. Seven feels a little like the well used "I'm not human and I'd like to be" Star Trek character whereas Kes was not human but didn't try to be either (if that makes sense).

As for the catsuit, was there an in-fandom reason she couldn't wear normal clothes over it? I know it regenerated her skin or something along those lines, but was there a reason she couldn't wear it under her clothes (whether she'd have a Starfleet uniform or civilian clothes is a different topic)?

 

[borgboy]

I don't see any reason why Seven couldn't wear clothes over the catsuit, but exploitative as it was in real life, on the show it made sense she didn't wear clothes over it. Neither fashion or modesty would've been a concern for Seven.

 

[TigerCat]

True. I guess having Seven in normal clothes would be the next step in her integration back to humanity (and Ryan would be able to breath normally in less tight clothes).

 

[2takesfrakes]

Never mind where she gestated him, what hole did he come out of?

Here I have to disagree.
Star Trek is about exploring space and adventures, not some age-related drama like "The Bold And The Beauty" or some other soap opera where a character's aging and death goes on for seasons and become some tear-wrenching drama.

But I like the idea of seeing The Doctor find a way to prolong her lifespan.

Suppose, for a moment, that Linnis didn't have to be from another Timeline. Perhaps Kes dumped Neelix early and got with Tom, right away, instead. Seeing her as a mother and an eventual granny, whilst Tom seems not to have aged, at all, might've offered the depth to Kes that some VOY fans feel was lacking. Between that and her ability to use magic, I'm sure that even you would have to admit that Kes' narrative would've been measurably enriched.

 

[Sophie74656]

Suppose, for a moment, that Linnis didn't have to be from another Timeline. Perhaps Kes dumped Neelix early and got with Tom, right away, instead. Seeing her as a mother and an eventual granny, whilst Tom seems not to have aged, at all, might've offered the depth to Kes that some VOY fans feel was lacking. Between that and her ability to use magic, I'm sure that even you would have to admit that Kes' narrative would've been measurably enriched.

^^THIS

 

[Tracy Trek]

^^Is that picture from a specific episode or has it been photo-shopped? I don't recall it. It does however remind me of Kirk when he realized Spock was swimming with the whales.

You know, it would have been sad I think for Tom if no way could have been found to extend the Ocampan life-span in the alternate timeline. He could potentially lose his wife, daughter, grandson when he still had years ahead of him. You would think adding some human DNA to the mix would give Linnis and Andrew a few more years. Unless like someone pointed out on another thread about hybrids. That it seemed the other species traits were always dominant.

 

[Sophie74656]

It's from Threshold...right after the shuttle is "destroyed" in the simulation in the beginning of the episode

 

[TigerCat]

Speaking of Threshold, will I be in the minority if I say I quite liked the episode? Lizard babies aside (though I still am annoyed that there was no discussion of bringing the babies on board or that Janeway and Tom didn't seem too bothered by Chakotay deciding to leave them behind without asking/consulting them) it was a nice way to get inside Tom's head and see what drives him.

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't hate it. There are some ok moments in the episode

 

[TigerCat]

It definitely had a nice team feeling both when trying to get the idea to work in the holodeck and in the mess hall while bringing Neelix up to speed.

 

[φ of π]

... and in the mess hall while bringing Neelix up to speed.

Three words: "Stupid Neelix Moment."

 

[Lynx]

Suppose, for a moment, that Linnis didn't have to be from another Timeline. Perhaps Kes dumped Neelix early and got with Tom, right away, instead. Seeing her as a mother and an eventual granny, whilst Tom seems not to have aged, at all, might've offered the depth to Kes that some VOY fans feel was lacking. Between that and her ability to use magic, I'm sure that even you would have to admit that Kes' narrative would've been measurably enriched.

Honestly not!
I think that Kes was perfect as she was, except for that silly life-span.

I just watched "Phage" and "The Cloud" this evening and I really like what I saw there. The cameraderie, the cooperation between the characters, the atmosphere. That's my Voyager, that's what I want!

And Kes is excellent in "Phage" even if it isn't one of her top episodes!

 

[TigerCat]

Three words: "Stupid Neelix Moment."

Hardly. If it wasn't for Neelix's memory, Harry and Tom wouldn't have their light bulb moment of what could be wrong with their simulations. Yeah Neelix had no idea of how he inspired them, but the point is that he did inspire them.

I just watched "Phage" and "The Cloud" this evening and I really like what I saw there. The cameraderie, the cooperation between the characters, the atmosphere. That's my Voyager, that's what I want!

Agreed.

 

[Tracy Trek]

The cameraderie, the cooperation between the characters, the atmosphere. That's my Voyager, that's what I want!

It's moments like this that make Voyager my favorite.

 

[Sophie74656]

It's moments like this that make Voyager my favorite.

There are so many of these moments

 

[2takesfrakes]

You know, it would have been sad I think for Tom if no way could have been found to extend the Ocampan life-span in the alternate timeline. He could potentially lose his wife, daughter, grandson when he still had years ahead of him. You would think adding some human DNA to the mix would give Linnis and Andrew a few more years. Unless like someone pointed out on another thread about hybrids. That it seemed the other species traits were always dominant.

You bring up some very good points, here. All I can say is that the TNG movies may hold the key - particularly, "Insurrection." Long made short of it is that there's a confined area of the known Galaxy where a natural phenomenon acts as a perpetual Fountain of Youth. There are limitations placed on how this can be utilised, but if, as stated, this is a natural phenomenon, then surely, it's repeated in other quadrants, throughout the Galaxy. What the EMH could come up with, based on Voyager's exposure to such ... who can say? But Kes - and indeed the crew - could enjoy significant benefits and what other storylines might develop there, we'll never know, now. But nothing new would've had to have been invented, necessarily, to get Kes (Linnis, Andrew, etc.) on track for living to a ripe, old age, like the rest of their shipmates.

Honestly not!
I think that Kes was perfect as she was, except for that silly life-span.

I just watched "Phage" and "The Cloud" this evening and I really like what I saw there. The cameraderie, the cooperation between the characters, the atmosphere. That's my Voyager, that's what I want!

And Kes is excellent in "Phage" even if it isn't one of her top episodes!

No regular character on VOY was as guileless and vulnerable as Kes and it endears her to many, still. But by her own admission, she welcomed "complication" in her Life and wanted to experience more and different things. In so-doing, I would not, however, appreciate witnessing the character becoming cynical, or jaded, in any way. Keeping an optimistic spirit and curious mind are the hallmarks of STAR TREK ... and of Kes. And plus, it's not really fair to Jennifer Lien, to not allow her more varied opportunities to explore her character. I like who Kes is and I wouldn't expect her to lose that, by adding more Life experiences than maybe she got, during her run on the show.

 

[Sophie74656]

Everybody seems to be assuming that Kes would WANT a longer life. Didn't her daughter in Before and After say that Kes said she didn't want anything done to extend her life?

In regards to unfair to Jennifer Lien...there are many interviews and convention transcripts where she talked about having no desire to go to the producers to discussnher character development. On the other hand, actors like Roxann Dawson, Robbie McNeil, Robert Picardo, Kate Mulgrew, have discussed many times about multiple meetings they requested to discuss the growth of their characters and as such they had more development on screen. If Lien had no desire to put the work in then it's not unfair to her, it's by her own doing.