When did Trill join the federation?

[Evil Ezri]

During the time of Jadzia Dax, there was a time travel episode that came back to the era of James T Kirk and gang. During the episode, Jadzia Dax removed her trill spots to make her look like a human Starfleet officer. Since there is special rules for non member races to join Starfleet, there may not have been any Trills at that time as members of the Starfleet.

If Trill was not a member of the Federation during the 2240’s and they were during the era of Jadzia Dax during the 2360’s, it begs the question when they did join.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

We don't actually know that they were a member of the Federation.

 

[Evil Ezri]

Feel there is enough evidence to say they were members of the Federation. Think about the problems that Nog had to deal with being accepted into Starfleet. If Trill was not a member of the Federation, there would be just the same road blocks with Jadzia Dax and Ezri Dax, and the Trill that had a small part with one of the TNG movies. There was nothing with their comments talking about how hard it was for them to join Starfleet as a non member planet.

 

[Thestral]

We don't actually know that they were a member of the Federation.

Indeed. Canon doesn't really indicate either way. We know Curzon Dax was a Federation ambassador, so it's pretty standard to assume that Trill is a Federation world, but there's no clear answer either way. The only time the DS9 crew really interacted with the Trill government, it was as a separate entity, but that tells us nothing because Fed. worlds are self-governing.

It may just be that Jadzia wanted to avoid any questions whatsoever. On a ship that is apparently almost all-human, easier to blend in.

 

[Evil Ezri]

It may just be that Jadzia wanted to avoid any questions whatsoever. On a ship that is apparently almost all-human, easier to blend in.

It could be that Jadzia Dax just wanted to blend into a ship full of humans. Still, I think that is the error of the 1960’s with having an all human ship called NCC-1701 Enterprise with a single Vulcan as a first officer. During the 1990’s I feel that the fans would have accepted Jadzia Dax walking about the ship as a Trill.

 

[Eyes]

It wouldn't have been the fans. It seemed that in the 23rd century, Federation ships were much less diverse, with maybe 1 or 2 crewmembers on board who were aliens. On a 'human' ship like the Enterprise, it makes sense to blend in and not be noticed, especially when the mission involved them changing history as little as possible.

 

[Finn]

Feel there is enough evidence to say they were members of the Federation. Think about the problems that Nog had to deal with being accepted into Starfleet. If Trill was not a member of the Federation, there would be just the same road blocks with Jadzia Dax and Ezri Dax, and the Trill that had a small part with one of the TNG movies. There was nothing with their comments talking about how hard it was for them to join Starfleet as a non member planet.

That doesn't mean they didn't. We never hear about Miles being beat up by a bully as a kid. Doesn't mean he wasn't.

 

[Evil Ezri]

It wouldn't have been the fans. It seemed that in the 23rd century, Federation ships were much less diverse, with maybe 1 or 2 crewmembers on board who were aliens. On a 'human' ship like the Enterprise, it makes sense to blend in and not be noticed, especially when the mission involved them changing history as little as possible.

Ok, I can accept that theory. Still, the question about when Trill joined the federation is still an open question. With NCC-1701 Enterprise during the 2240’s, it does beg the question that Trill was such a new member that it would be uncommon that a Trill would be in the position as a Starfleet officer during the 2240’s, or, that Trill was not at that time a member.

 

[Thestral]

Still, the question about when Trill joined the federation is still an open question.

Yes, but "Trials and Tribble-ations" isn't really a good example of that. In fact, based on Dax's apparent... familiarity with Leonard McCoy, it would seem that Trill were at least somewhat familiar to 23rd Century humans.

With NCC-1701 Enterprise during the 2240’s, it does beg the question that Trill was such a new member that it would be uncommon that a Trill would be in the position as a Starfleet officer during the 2240’s, or, that Trill was not at that time a member.

It's much easier to assume that the reason Dax was hiding her identity wasn't because of the great uncommonness of Trill, but because of the species-ratio on Enterprise. If Enterprise was a primarily-human ship, then the crew who were non-human would've stood out more; there may have been no Trill on Enterprise during this time period.

 

[Evil Ezri]

With NCC-1701 Enterprise during the 2240’s, it does beg the question that Trill was such a new member that it would be uncommon that a Trill would be in the position as a Starfleet officer during the 2240’s, or, that Trill was not at that time a member.

It's much easier to assume that the reason Dax was hiding her identity wasn't because of the great uncommonness of Trill, but because of the species-ratio on Enterprise. If Enterprise was a primarily-human ship, then the crew who were non-human would've stood out more; there may have been no Trill on Enterprise during this time period.

Still, is the bias of the 1960’s were placed into the 2240’s and the bias of the 1990’s were place into the 2370’s. The cultural change from the 1960’s is different than in the 1990’s. If Jadzia Dax removed her spots to be accepted, did she also used the terms of the 1960’s to be a “Red Shirt” so nobody would be offended as she was in a red dress. Interesting, was she in a red dress to mirror a “Red Shirt” so nobody would be offended with Jadzia Dax in say a command level color uniform.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

The symbionts weren't common knowledge to Federation doctors as of... that one episode of TNG with Odan I forget the name of. If Trill were a member world, I find it hard to believe Crusher couldn't have just looked it up in a database or something.

Curzon being a Federation ambassador doesn't tell us much either way. Worf became a Federation ambassador, too.

 

[Evil Ezri]

The symbionts weren't common knowledge to Federation doctors as of... that one episode of TNG with Odan I forget the name of. If Trill were a member world, I find it hard to believe Crusher couldn't have just looked it up in a database or something.

Curzon being a Federation ambassador doesn't tell us much either way. Worf became a Federation ambassador, too.

You have a good point with Crusher. Still, at the time the writers did not know what to do with the Trills at that time. Look at Odan, he did not have any spots on his body and he could not use the transporters because it could hurt of kill him as the host. The model of Odan was never used ever again. Still, Odan was never in my judgment the foundation model of all Trills. If Jadzia Dax had to use the same identical model as Odan during DS9, her character would have been weak to the point of being useless as a primary character. Odan was never designed to be reused.

In my judgment, Jadzia Dax was the role model of what is and what is not a Trill or a Trill host, not Odan.

 

[nx1701g]

The symbionts weren't common knowledge to Federation doctors as of... that one episode of TNG with Odan I forget the name of. If Trill were a member world, I find it hard to believe Crusher couldn't have just looked it up in a database or something.

Curzon being a Federation ambassador doesn't tell us much either way. Worf became a Federation ambassador, too.

Perhap's the Trill were able to keep the symbionts hidden from Federation scientists. Maybe they joined decided to send only unjoined representatives to meet with Federation officials or something along those lines? Maybe they also made arrangements that detailed scans not be permitted on their citizens and that they weren't allowed to use the transporters.

Just a possibility...

 

[CmndrSela318]

It could've been like Ferenginar and Nog.
Ferenginar wasn't part of the Federation but Nog joined Starfleet.
Maybe that was the case with Curzon, Jadzia and Ezri.
They joined Starfleet but Trill never joined the Federation.

 

[Evil Ezri]

Is there canon that Earth joined the United Federation of Planets? Think we are getting off the subject to prove that Trill was never a member of the United Federation of Planets. If Trill never joined the federation, can someone point out a Trill military ship as an independent planet they would have to defend themselves without the help of the United Federation of Planets.

 

[Thestral]

Is there canon that Earth joined the United Federation of Planets? Think we are getting off the subject to prove that Trill was never a member of the United Federation of Planets. If Trill never joined the federation, can someone point out a Trill military ship as an independent planet they would have to defend themselves without the help of the United Federation of Planets.

Weelllll... Earth is the capital of the Federation, among many other indications that Earth is a Federation member, so...

As far as canon is concerned, Trill's status as a Federation member world is just never addressed. No Trill ships are ever seen, this is true, and when Dax is training that Initiate, she suggests Starfleet as a potential career move, and it's presented as a "standard" move.

It's possible, but not likely, that Trill is a non-member protectorate of the Federation like Bajor, perhaps in a similar situation as Puerto Rico for the United States. The Trill we see in Starfleet might then be those who've chosen to go that route rather than the Trill equivalent, like Bajoran refugees Ro and Sito. Why Trill wouldn't join, who knows? Memory Alpha's got a really interesting talk page about this issue.

For what it's worth, TrekLit and the DS9 Relaunch present Trill as a standard Federation member world, and that's my personal opinion on the matter.

Also, unrelatedly Evil Ezri, where in East TN are you from?

 

[Gil T.Azell]

And maybe there just no Trills assigned to the Enterprise?

 

[Timo]

To be sure, we don't know if TOS era ships had such monospecies crews as a general rule, or if Kirk's ship was a glaring exception from the norm. We only saw glimpses into the crews of the Exeter and the Defiant, although admittedly we couldn't spot any obvious nonhumans in those glimpses.

But Kirk had a crew of only 430, most of them apparently stuck in the same tin can for the whole five years, and he could plausibly have known each and every one of them by sight at least. Our heroes needed to look as generic as possible; it's in fact a bit odd that Kirk didn't notice the new black officer when there were so few black servicemen on the ship in general, and IIRC no black Lieutenants save for Uhura and the late Alden were shown... (Stunningly good-looking caucasian female Lieutenants were a dime in a dozen, of course.)

As for Trill membership, I vote against (both in the TOS and DS9 eras), but only because the lack of evidence allows me to be "controversial" on this. Most writers probably assumed the Trills were members. Secretive members, to be sure, with odd habits that the average Earthling might find repulsive - but then again, that much was also established of the Vulcans in TOS already!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is there canon that Earth joined the United Federation of Planets?

No.

We know that Earth's actual government is called United Earth (as ENT showed). There's no evidence that this ceased to exist when the Federation was formed. That wouldn't even make any sense.

 

[Timo]

Why not? Perhaps one of the entry requirements is disbanding of local government and its replacement by a new local government that abides to specific UFP standards of governance. Even if the UE government already met those standards (which may even have been defined using the UE as the basis, considering the influence of Earthlings in the UFP), it might have been symbolically important to disband the UE government and install a standardized UFP local government under the same parameters but a different name.

We know Earth is subject to UFP laws and e.g. UFP military rule in appropriately declared times of crisis, so its status as a member world seems very likely, even if there is no canon mention of it.

Timo Saloniemi