When did the perception of Insurrection change?
- Thread starter Lance
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Even SFDebris brings up the whole white people thing (he goes even further, calling them elves). He doesn't bring up the race issue with the relocation, but does call out Picard's hypocrisy regarding the Maquis though.have you seen Redlettermedia or TVtropes' take on INS?
They bring up the fact that Picard reverses his position from "journey's end," and they point out that the writing and juxtaposition of the two makes it look(rather unfortunately for the character) like Picard did so because in THAT case it was non-Whites being removed, whereas in THIS case it was Whites being removed.
And of course in "journey's end" there was no hot White woman for Picard to rescue.
Don't forget that Picard's actions, hormones and maybe even his judgement are all being affected from being on the planet. He might have reacted differently if it wasn't for that. Data even comments in the film about "certain rebellious instincts common to youth" may come out. Worf's "aggressive tendancies" for instance. None of the crew are really 100% themselves in this movie because of the metaphasic radiation.
That just makes Picard worse. Knowing he's being affect by the radiation and making the kinds of decisions he's making is just dangerous and irresponsible.
Again, the film does not state the radiation won't be used. The only thing the film shows is that the Ba'ku are not killed because of greed.A) it was Wesley
B) the situation isn't really comparable because it was to prevent a war and not to score a luxury resource
C) meeting Kirk, fighting the Borg against orders and fighting the Dominion surely changed his point of view.
Heck, the events of that very episode might have changed his opinion.
Wesley is the hero of that episode, not Picard.
A resource that could cure billions suffering from a war is not a luxury resource. And it's certainly not something you put the sentiment and feelings of 600 over.
The Federation can get all those wounded to the other side of the planet for shore leave.
1) Some conditions (such as the S'ona) might take to long to treat via normal exposure. Otherwise, fuck the Baku, no need to even let them know you're there at all. Set up a colony or build an orbital station.
The biggest benefit comes from stripping the rings and using concentrated exposure.
2) You think the space-hippies would put up with that if they found out?
Again, the film does not state the radiation won't be used. The only thing the film shows is that the Ba'ku are not killed because of greed.A) it was Wesley
B) the situation isn't really comparable because it was to prevent a war and not to score a luxury resource
C) meeting Kirk, fighting the Borg against orders and fighting the Dominion surely changed his point of view.
Heck, the events of that very episode might have changed his opinion.
Wesley is the hero of that episode, not Picard.
A resource that could cure billions suffering from a war is not a luxury resource. And it's certainly not something you put the sentiment and feelings of 600 over.
The Federation can get all those wounded to the other side of the planet for shore leave.
Or better yet study the radiation to figure out how to make it themselves I mean the federation did used to have the technology to make planets.
Well seeing as they were never asked about the possibility we don't know.
Well, they thought they did. David sort of spilled protomatter into the matrix, so we don't know if Genesis would work as advertised or not. We know it makes short term, unstable, planets that like to go boom.
2) This is why the movie makes no sense. There's no need to even drag anyone into this. Just build a space station, build a colony elsewhere on the planet, and get on with life.
it's ironic since the film obviously wanted a simple "black and white" scenario for a lighter and smaller-scale movie that the premise was so messed up.
All they had to do was change the premise to something like wanting to remove the Baku for a different reason, like to use the planet as a base for the war or something and NOT have the stakes be " medical treatment for billions".
Hell, Picard points this out in Descent, Part 1. I know Piller was off the show at that point, but it does show the lack of familiarity he had with the characters when he wrote the movie. What we get in the movie does fit Gene's/Hollywood's bizarre "competence and pragmatism = evil" mindset though, which is really bizarre in this movie because the pragmatic admiral was going for solutions that would kill less people, while the Enterprise crew wound up causing tons of people to get hurt or die.
Okay, then why didn't someone ask the Ba'ku if they were willing to leave? Because if they said no, they would seem like selfish jerks and if they said yes, there would be no movie.
There is too many unexplained plot holes for this movie to work, how did the Ba'ku defeat the Son'a if they didn't believe n violence and why didn't the Son'a set up their own colony in another part of the planet after being exiled from the village? The story is so filled with holes, it doesn't work.
Yeppers. When you make the stake: 600 people (non native) having to move to save billions dying in a war, most people are going to side with billions. They made the number to high to even question, even the high thousands would make most people go "Hmm, yeah, I think the 600 need to move". It was the wrong plot device by a long shot.
I still think it would have been better if they had went with the planet having a valuable ore that was the basis of Federation medical technology. Which was running out due to the Feds being cut off from the worlds that supply it and high casualties.
eh, I still think that makes the decision to move them too easy.
Anything related to medical needs that benefit billions during a war is going to take precedence.
If it was only a small advantage like a strategically-located base, or some kind of resource to build certain weapons or something, then you could just sit back and say "not a big deal either way, let's just enjoy the show."
As it is, at the "happy ending" all I can think of are the billions that won't get treatment, and the Son'a that are going to die.
Would a film with Q have worked you think?
Also I know this has been said enough times, but could a Dominion conflict have been the focus for INS? I think INS could've worked if the villains were more of a threat/engaging. Watching INS all i see is a bunch of thug aliens who have an addiction to plastic surgery.
Maybe keep the original title which was Star Trek Stardust.
http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/01/19/Stardurst-The-Lost-Story-Behind-the-First-Draft-of-Star-Trek-Insurrection.shtml
Also I know this has been said enough times, but could a Dominion conflict have been the focus for INS? I think INS could've worked if the villains were more of a threat/engaging. Watching INS all i see is a bunch of thug aliens who have an addiction to plastic surgery.
Maybe keep the original title which was Star Trek Stardust.
http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/01/19/Stardurst-The-Lost-Story-Behind-the-First-Draft-of-Star-Trek-Insurrection.shtml
interesting. Of course I've heard from fans who liked it, but I don't think I've EVER heard from one who regarded it as their favorite.
Well Picard sings along with Data(best moment of my life), and the whole thing just feels like an episode, the way TNG used to feel. I can see the point of why some people don't like it, but I have learned to overlook the flaws in these movies and just not give a darn. Don't even get me started on the last two remakes, now those I can hate on but when I take a step back I admit that they're good movies. What I liked about Insurrection was that there wasn't a whole lot of violence, yes there's some fighting but it's not like blood and guts everywhere type of thing. It's a movie where I don't have to go shitshitshitshitshitshit someone's going to die soon! Yes there's the "needs of the many outway the needs of the few" thing, but this place had became this peoples' home even though they weren't native. I just appreciated Picard's view on the situation, as you can see in my signature one of my favorite quotes from the movie that basically sums up the point for me. As I'm typing this I realize it probably doesn't make any sense, but it's still my favorite Trek movie.
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