When did the Federation first meet the Cardassians? Were there any relations between the Federation and the Cardassian Union in the last TOS period or did first contact occur later then that? Also when did the military coup on Cardassian occur?
When did the Federation first meet the Cardassians?
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
That's kinds odd, it would mean in TOS the Federation was in contact with an military dictatorship with an expansionist ideology and yet there was no mention of them in TOS era.
The only way that would make sense is the military coup occurred after TOS and the Cardies were just minding their own business try to solve the problems on their planet and ignoring everyone else. However Alpha Memory suggests the military coup on Cardassia took place in the 19th century.
Except why would Cardies not do anything of note in that era? Its not like the Cardies are shy and they seemed to dislike the Federation right away, so why are they minding their own business back then? If the Cardassian Union existed back then, wouldn't they have conflicted with the Federation on a regular basis?
Is there any canon evidence that they didn't do anything of note during that time? They may have been in an conflict with a race that controlled a region far from the Federation, so we wouldn't have heard anything about them on TOS. Klingons didn't show up on TOS as much as the first three years of TNG.
Is there any cannon evidence the Cardies did do anything in that time frame? The Klingons were menetioned in TOS , even if they only showed up in 7 episodes, people still knew they existed, they made their presence known, now and again. You really can't say that for the Cardies in TOS, can you?
Plus if the Cardies could occupy Bajor and fight a war with the federation in the era right before TNG, it shows they can do two things at once. So clearly the Cardassian Union could have fought a war elsewhere and still have had some ships to protect their border with the Federation in the TOS era. Frankly you have no cannon evidence that the Cardies were involved in a war with another species back then.
You make an assumption that everything known to exist needs to be talked about constantly by everyone. I don't think that assumption is valid.
In the 79 hours of the original Enterprise's adventures, Cardassian civilization was never a topic of conversation between the characters, even though said characters knew of it. Not especially difficult to fathom.
In the 79 hours of the original Enterprise's adventures, Cardassian civilization was never a topic of conversation between the characters, even though said characters knew of it. Not especially difficult to fathom.
Just because the Cardassians weren't dealing with the Federation or the Enterprise in the TOS era (that we were shown) doesn't mean they weren't up to other things.
There is canon evidence that the Federation at least had some contact with the Cardassians in the early years, but that doesn't mean it was worth mentioning. I mean, the Ferengi weren't in TOS either, but we know from ENT that they were around.
There is canon evidence that the Federation at least had some contact with the Cardassians in the early years, but that doesn't mean it was worth mentioning. I mean, the Ferengi weren't in TOS either, but we know from ENT that they were around.
Just because a (possible) individual Cardassian traveld to Vulcan in the 22nd century, that doesn't translate to the Cardassian Union and the Federation having any contact.
Marco Polo traveled to China, but the Venetian Republic never had contact with the court of Kublai Khan.
A solitary poet, perhaps a nomad, far from home. The impression I received from the series is that contact occurred after the last TOS movie and before Picard gained command of the Stargazer.
Marco Polo traveled to China, but the Venetian Republic never had contact with the court of Kublai Khan.
A solitary poet, perhaps a nomad, far from home. The impression I received from the series is that contact occurred after the last TOS movie and before Picard gained command of the Stargazer.
Dude, you are not helping your case. It was established in DS9 that there was a Cardassian of note (not some random Cardie that ventured away from his home planet) on Vulcan (Ezri seemed to talk as if it wasn't unusual for a Cardie to show up on one of the Federation's core worlds at the time), Organians mentioning them in Enterprise, and that drink in the movie. The destruction of the Kelvin wouldn't have made contact with Cardies sooner.
That's three pieces of canon evidence that supports that there was at least some knowledge of the Cardassian civilization during the time of TOS.
BTW, it was established that for a good part of the 24th Century, there was no contact between the Federation and the Romulans prior to TNG's Neutral Zone. That means if we had a Trek series between mid-2310s and 2364, we could have a whole set of episodes without a mention of Romulans. Should a viewer who have never seen TOS, Enterprise and the recent movie assume The Federation weren't aware of the Romulans prior to 2364?
I think that the Federation was aware of many "24th-Century races" during the TOS era and even earlier, but back in those days the Federation was smaller and they didn't deal with them as much as they would later. Conversely, new races encountered during the TNG era might not become major players with the Federation until the 25th-Century or later, IMO.
But in regards to the Cardassians, first official contact between them and the Federation could have been as early as the late 22nd-Century, but the mid 24th-Century Cardassian Border Conflicts could have been the result of the Federation expanding until it was suddenly on the Cardassians' front porch and then things got ugly between the two governments at that point...
But in regards to the Cardassians, first official contact between them and the Federation could have been as early as the late 22nd-Century, but the mid 24th-Century Cardassian Border Conflicts could have been the result of the Federation expanding until it was suddenly on the Cardassians' front porch and then things got ugly between the two governments at that point...
That pun gets worse every time I hear it. And yet, I was going to make that very same response before I saw you did. I am a hypocrite.
Anyhoo, as far as I'm concerned, contact between the Federation and the Cardassians happened in the 24th century, between TOS and TNG. This Cardassian poet that lived on Vulcan in the 22nd century is a continuity anomaly I choose to ignore.
Except when have the Cardassians ever engaged in a isolationist policy like Romulans did, the Romulans at least have history of isolation, something the Cardies do not have. So why again where the Cardies not active in the TOS era?
Those examples seem more like continuity errors then anything else.
Frankly at this point the only way you explain the lack of Cardie involvement in the TOS era, is due to the fact that the military coup didn't happen yet and the Cardies were not an expansionist society yet, which means Alpha Memory was wrong.
I don´t think so. I mean space is big. The Feds probably were busy expanding and the Cardies as well. There just still were more planets, that did not belong to either power. So the Cardies could expand and happily annex planets for getting there ressources ans feed their people and the Federation could expand as well without getting in the Cardies way.
I still think they could have known of each other also in the TOS time, there just were no bigger conflicts between them. And if there were smaller conflicts..who knows... we just follow a few characters around, for them Cardassians might just not have been a topic.
Also, even the Cardassian expant, I doubt a lot of them would fly to far away places to explore them, when they still have enough room around there home to expand into. Just to travel space for the sake of it would not be efficient, if you have planets to take ressources from in the neighbourhood and it would also not be very "family-friendly".
At one point in time the borders of both powers met... and then the trouble began.
Of course this explanation is ignoring the fact, that simply no mind had yet created the Cardies and something not created cannot show up.
TerokNor
Yesterday. It happened yesterday.
And you totally missed it, dude.
And you totally missed it, dude.
