When did the Federation/Cardasssian War

[Timo]

It's actually a very good thing that the DS9 writers established planetary defenses (even primitive ones) as nigh-invincible. Now we finally understand how interstellar wars are possible in the first place! Previously, we were led to believe that a single starship could terminate a civilization if given a few hours. Now we realize that no single starship will get those hours, and that even hundreds of ships will have a struggle ahead of them in trying to get to firing positions. This fits perfectly with the TNG dialogue wherein fleets numbering in dozens ("Redemption") are deemed ridiculously small for conquest purposes...

The situation nicely fits the sailing ship analogy that Trek warfare usually follows. A single ship can fight another to a decisive defeat, even though this requires fancy maneuvering and a long time spent pounding the opponent at point blank ranges. A single ship can also bombard a coastal town/planet and blackmail the governor to submission. But not even a mighty fleet can make much of a dent against a fortified port.

OTOH, fleets are not tied to logistics much, as they don't have to take on coal or oil for propulsion. Sensor ranges are limited, and fleets can roam in the vastness of the ocean/space unaware of the whereabouts of the opposition. Often enough, ground combat involves naval infantry drafted from ship crews, as the fleet maneuvers take such long times that dedicated troops would grow restless and logistically untenable. Small contingents of specialist marines may also be used as spearheads. Even small craft with their small cannon can make a contribution in the unholy melees that all fleet battles devolve into. But the small craft, while nimble, are usually slower than the large ones and cannot be used in the manner of the naval aircraft of the 20th century.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sci]

It is a lot like Tibet. I'm sure there are many in the US who would like to see the country free but few would be willing to go to war with China over the issue.

I didn't think of it that way... I was going to say shame on the Federation, but then I'd have to say shame on us. Ugly little thing, the truth, isn't it?

Another issue to consider is the idea that the Bajoran government at the time of the start of the Occupation may have been composed of traitors who were complicit in the Cardassian Union's taking of their world.

The recent novel Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers by James Swallow, in fact, postulates just that.

Spoiler: Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers

In the novel, the Cardassian Union initially makes a deal with key members of the Chamber of Ministers, including Minister Kubus Oak, where the Cardassians would trade with the companies owned by those ministers and their clans, giving the Bajorans access to technology around a century more advanced than what they had. Meanwhile, a persecuted Cardassian sect called the Oralian Way made a deal with the Bajoran government and the church to establish their own permanent enclaves on Bajor. The Cardassians and their supporters in the legislature eventually maneuevered a politician loyal to them to the First Ministership, and the Bajoran government began accepting the permanent presence of Cardassian troops in the Bajor system and on Bajor because of Bajoran fears of Tzenkethi aggression stoked by the Cardassians. The Bajoran government also began accepting Cardassian demands to apply Cardassian law to anyone who breaks Cardassian law in the enclaves, Bajoran or Cardassian, even as the Cardassians themselves start to kill off their Oralians and take over the enclaves.

In the end, Cardassian agents assassinate the First Minister and their allies in the Bajoran government blame it on terrorists being funded by the Tzenkethi and the Federation, and planetary civil unrest prompts the remainder of the government, now controlled by people who got rich off of the Cardassians, to invite the Cardassian Union to stay permanently on Bajor and then to welcome Bajor's annexation.

In other words, from a legal perspective, the Bajoran government asked to be conquered and occupied. Given that situation, the Federation certainly can't intervene without breaking the Prime Directive -- after all, even if the overwhelming majority of Bajorans didn't want that, the government did.

 

[Tactical Drone]

Well in the Occupation it was the Cardassians occupying Bajor and wasn't a Federation affair. In Insurrection, the Federation itself was performing a terrible deed and Picard said to hell with it and intervened. I don't think it was a violation of the PD in Insurrection, because the Federation was directly involved.

 

[Photon]

Well in the Occupation it was the Cardassians occupying Bajor and wasn't a Federation affair. In Insurrection, the Federation itself was performing a terrible deed and Picard said to hell with it and intervened. I don't think it was a violation of the PD in Insurrection, because the Federation was directly involved.

Insurrection was an insurrection. That was a boring, boring movie.

 

[Tactical Drone]

Well in the Occupation it was the Cardassians occupying Bajor and wasn't a Federation affair. In Insurrection, the Federation itself was performing a terrible deed and Picard said to hell with it and intervened. I don't think it was a violation of the PD in Insurrection, because the Federation was directly involved.

Insurrection was an insurrection. That was a boring, boring movie.

this is a discussion on the Cardassian War, not a bash Star Trek Insurrection thread.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

wasn't Picard on the Stargazer during that conflict?

That is correct. In "The Wounded," he describes an encounter between Stargazer and a Cardie warship, in which he ordered the lowering of the deflector shields as a gesture of goodwill and was then attacked anyway. The weapons and impulse engines of the Stargazer were damaged and she was forced to flee.

I think the explanation was that the Cardassians took offense to the gesture. Was it ever explained what they found offensive? (Was it, maybe, that they felt like Picard was thumbing his nose and saying, "You're too weak to hurt me even with my shields down"?)