Totally understandable.
Believability is less a factor for me because of earlier Trek episodes and ideas.
When did Discovery JUMP the Shark?
- Thread starter TerryTrek
- Start date
Believability is less a factor for me because of earlier Trek episodes and ideas.
Good point, and I thought the same thing when it was airing. Possibly the best example is "THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY". After 5 years working together and going through what they did together, Janeway and Chakotay both end up with a phaser holstered while around each other? I'd expect that in season 1 or 2... early season 3, but that is reaaaaaallllly stretching it. Certainly not in season 6.
I agree. Even though "The Voyager Conspiracy" is one of my favorite episodes of Season 6, because I get a kick out of what Seven was able to come up with, and it really tapped into the Conspiracy-Theory-Mania going on in the late-'90s... Janeway and Chakotay doubting each other at this point, even for an instant, is a black mark against it.
As far as Discovery, I don't think it jumped the shark. I think it stress-tested what people were willing to accept and stress-tested how far viewers were willing to go when it shifted gears. I have a better idea of where I stand on a lot of things regarding Star Trek now, that I hadn't thought of before.
It also put me on the opposite side of where I normally am in Trekkie Arguments. Outside of DSC, I've always been on the side of older Trek (at least after 1999), so I was used to having people who weren't into newer Trek (whether it was B&B, JJ, or SNW) on my side, rather than the other way around. So I'm grateful to have gained a different perspective from this experience as well. It was interesting.
It also put me on the opposite side of where I normally am in Trekkie Arguments. Outside of DSC, I've always been on the side of older Trek (at least after 1999), so I was used to having people who weren't into newer Trek (whether it was B&B, JJ, or SNW) on my side, rather than the other way around. So I'm grateful to have gained a different perspective from this experience as well. It was interesting.
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I agree with you on Gene, it might have started it with great ideas, but he was terrible at leading it.
If you want to see a huge break down (17 parts I think) this guys breaks the entire history of treak down. He is pretty easy to listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/@RowanJColeman
Thanks for the link!
Another vote for Rowan J Coleman here. I've listened to his entire Star Trek series and it is excellent.
He has also done BSG and babylon 5, really good stuff.
Saru will be the shark-jumper. 
Or perhaps instead of a shark, he could get on top of the ship, whilst riding it off into the sunset? There's your finale.
So I'm mostly through a series -rewatch for the final season, and I don't think the show has jumped the shark. The show's worst tendency is dragging the arcs past their natural conclusion just to fill the season.
The reveal of the burn was a real headscratcher as well.
I quite liked Burnham's mother as the Red Angel, but I got bored with Control, the evil AI, regardless of how well the season ended.
Or perhaps instead of a shark, he could get on top of the ship, whilst riding it off into the sunset? There's your finale.
So I'm mostly through a series -rewatch for the final season, and I don't think the show has jumped the shark. The show's worst tendency is dragging the arcs past their natural conclusion just to fill the season.
The reveal of the burn was a real headscratcher as well.
I quite liked Burnham's mother as the Red Angel, but I got bored with Control, the evil AI, regardless of how well the season ended.
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The show has never jumped the shark because at no point did it ever consistently reach the heights of other shows. At least in my opinion.
For what it’s worth, I think each season has been a marginal improvement on the last (not counting S5 yet), but ONLY marginally. Each new season did something that I thought was lacking in the preceding season. For example, S4 having no villain of the season was IMO a breath of fresh air. I think a lot of Kurtzman Trek has gotten way too wound up in trying to create (or even reuse in the case of the Borg Queen) villains. S3 jumping ahead into the future and seeing the Trek universe in a wholly new predicament was nice, as I had felt being in the TOS era was the wrong impulse from the start.
I get the feeling that DISCO as a whole will be seen as that Trek show that kind of had take a lot of hits in order for better future shows to be made. I’ve actually enjoyed SNW, LDS, and Prodigy a hell of a lot more than DISCO. PIC is hit and miss, but that might be a show I revisit more than DISCO (barring maybe PIC S2).
As for S5, the big asterisk for me is the two villains. I’m not feeling they’re all that compelling, and might be a huge factor in ranking this season lower than S4. But, it also has Rayner, who I’ve come to really love as character as much as I did for Captain Shaw, and hope his character has a better fate. So it could go anywhere depending on S5 sticks the landing.
For what it’s worth, I think each season has been a marginal improvement on the last (not counting S5 yet), but ONLY marginally. Each new season did something that I thought was lacking in the preceding season. For example, S4 having no villain of the season was IMO a breath of fresh air. I think a lot of Kurtzman Trek has gotten way too wound up in trying to create (or even reuse in the case of the Borg Queen) villains. S3 jumping ahead into the future and seeing the Trek universe in a wholly new predicament was nice, as I had felt being in the TOS era was the wrong impulse from the start.
I get the feeling that DISCO as a whole will be seen as that Trek show that kind of had take a lot of hits in order for better future shows to be made. I’ve actually enjoyed SNW, LDS, and Prodigy a hell of a lot more than DISCO. PIC is hit and miss, but that might be a show I revisit more than DISCO (barring maybe PIC S2).
As for S5, the big asterisk for me is the two villains. I’m not feeling they’re all that compelling, and might be a huge factor in ranking this season lower than S4. But, it also has Rayner, who I’ve come to really love as character as much as I did for Captain Shaw, and hope his character has a better fate. So it could go anywhere depending on S5 sticks the landing.
This is a well thought out post.
Picard will be the New Trek series I know I'll revisit the most; but the reason doesn't have anything to do with Discovery or the other series. The reason is this: Every few years I re-watch the TOS Movies. That's usually (but not always) followed by the TNG Movies. If I'm watching the TNG Movies, then I'll immediately go to Picard right afterwards.
During my re-watches, "Should I watch Picard Season 1 or skip straight to Season 3?" has become the new "Should I go onto Generations, now that I've finished Star Trek VI, or call it a day?"
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I bolded the part that I am complete and total agreement.
Other than Terra Firma I would generally agree.
To be fair, haven’t rewatched ANY of PIC yet, and I just for the first time rewatched all four seasons of DISCO in prep for S5. So that’s pretty much why I’ll likely revisit PIC next. I dunno when. I don’t feel the inkling to. I definitely will in the future as I’m watching a lot of Trek with my roommate, who’s having her first watching of Trek. Currently at S3 of TNG, and with all the other shows it’ll be awhile before we even touch PIC.
That’s why I tried wording it with “consistently”. To be fair, I actually think the first nine episodes of S2 is fairly solid overall, with “If Memory Serves” being the standout of the season. I would have told you “hey, maybe the show has found its footing!” But starting with “The Red Angel”, the season collapses in a big way for me with so many contrivances and grand standing piling on-top of each other that by the end I’m just thankful they went to the future so that we could potentially leave that all behind.
And in a lot of ways that’s kind of the first three seasons in a nutshell, structurally. A stronger first half followed by a weaker last half. S4 broke that trend, and so far S5 is feeling like it’s escalating to something that’s actually keeping my interest. I may not care of Moll and L’ak, but I like the tension with the Breen added, and am interested in how that all develops. I’m actually not frustrated, and it’s NICE!
