When did Discovery JUMP the Shark?

[Dukhat]

The most logical way of looking at it? Hard disagree. Four people from the Mirror Universe beamed aboard the USS Enterprise when the landing party crossed over and beamed aboard the ISS Enterprise. It wasn't just some daydream that the landing party experienced.

I didn’t say it was. I said it was the most logical way to interpret the episode, because there’s no way that the PU and the MU would be anything alike at that time with what we learned about it later.

And those four crewmembers? An illusion too. We have no idea of what the Halkans were capable of, just like we had no idea what the Organians were capable of until they showed their true colors.

Of course this is all science fiction, so one can interpret things any way they want. Obviously this wasn’t the “Mirror Mirror” writers’ intent, or the intent of everything that came after, but one can certainly argue the case for their own interpretation.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I said it was the most logical way to interpret the episode

But it isn't.

And those four crewmembers? An illusion too. We have no idea of what the Halkans were capable of, just like we had no idea what the Organians were capable of until they showed their true colors.

There's nothing on screen in any episode to support this supposition about the Halkans. You may as well say that any alien could be a godlike, noncorporeal being in disguise and anything goes.

 

[Dukhat]

But it isn't.


There's nothing on screen in any episode to support this supposition about the Halkans. You may as well say that any alien could be a godlike, noncorporeal being in disguise and anything goes.

As I said, it’s a valid interpretation (but clearly not the writers’ intent) that wasn't borne out in future productions. Just because you don’t like the interpretation doesn’t mean it’s not a valid way of hypothesizing about it.

And how many godlike noncorporeal beings did the Enterprise encounter in TOS? More than a few.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I didn’t say it was. I said it was the most logical way to interpret the episode, because there’s no way that the PU and the MU would be anything alike at that time with what we learned about it later.

No. It is what is.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As I said, it’s a valid interpretation (but clearly not the writers’ intent) that wasn't borne out in future productions. Just because you don’t like the interpretation doesn’t mean it’s not a valid way of hypothesizing about it.

It's an interpretation completely lacking in supporting evidence. But, yeah, you do you.

 

[Dukhat]

No. It is what is.

Says you.

 

[Dukhat]

It's an interpretation completely lacking in supporting evidence. But, yeah, you do you.

I will, thank you.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Says you.

You are correct.

 

[Dukhat]

You are correct.

I usually am.

 

[Citiprime]

I wouldn't say it was fantastic. The original TOS version was meant as a cautionary tale, and quite possibly just a made-up scenario by the Halkans, and the MU didn't actually exist (which would have been the most logical way of looking at the episode.) The DS9 version was just a bastardized attempt to show some lesbianism, leather, and beloved characters acting like over-the-top assholes, and the ENT version was just a carryover from that. The DSC version, while fantastic in a production sense, simply showed just how ridiculous the entire concept of the MU is, and that it is a completely unrealistic way of life. And I detest the Emperor Georgiou character almost as much as Michael Burnham, because she is completely irredeemable and modern Trek is making her out to be some kind of idol when she is nothing of the sort. She's just an asshole like everyone else in the MU.

I'm partial to the concept behind DS9's "Crossover" and really like the episode.

If I remember correctly, the writer (Peter Allen Fields) based it around the idea that, if Deep Space Nine is more about dealing with long-term consequences like the situation with Bajor, then the DS9 conception of the Mirror Universe revolves around what happens in the weeks after Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise leaves? One of the biggest conceits of TOS is that we see them intervene in the lives of the planet of the week, seem to set things on the right track, and then move on. But what happens next?

And DS9's take on the Mirror Universe is what if Kirk's intervention for Mirror Spock to "do the right thing" was the worst possible thing that he could have done, and it utterly destroys their society?

 

[AlanC9]

Well, it's not like the Terran Empire didn't deserve to be destroyed. And it was doomed anyway. But point taken. For humans Kirk's intervention is something of a disaster, yep. And at least some other subject races.

In retrospect, Kirk's awfully lucky that the MU and prime universe can diverge. Otherwise he would have destroyed the Federation too.

 

[Nyotarules]

Does anyone actually watch it? Stopped after first season. Woke trek

So you are free to go back to sleep and dream of a tv world where the idea of a black female captain was as realistic as pigs flying over the moon. You will be sleeping for a loooong time

 

[fireproof78]

Well, it's not like the Terran Empire didn't deserve to be destroyed. And it was doomed anyway.

How did it deserved it? One question that is regularly ignored is why is our Prime universe (for want of a better word) standard of morality be applied?

 

[Nyotarules]

The problem with Star Trek in general now is that TPTB care too much about what people think.

Sadly this is true, the creators of Trek need to own their show. If GR thought the fans were god there would be no TNG.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

For me, the series went off the rails when it started to center far too much on crewmembers having too many traumatic situations that forced them to leave their posts in the middle of a crucial situation, almost the same level as the cutaways to having way too many talks about their feelings, to the point of distraction from the plot.

I'm not saying people can't feel, but there needs to be a line drawn in a story where the lead story needs to be the...lead story. You simply can't have something like an unknown entity destroying star systems at random, but have to hold off on finding that because someone is homesick.

For me, the third season was frustrating, but I had to stop watching in the middle of the fourth. It was going way overboard.

 

[Citiprime]

How did it deserved it? One question that is regularly ignored is why is our Prime universe (for want of a better word) standard of morality be applied?

It’s only by accident, and “our” USS Defiant and 23rd century tech appearing in their universe in the 22nd century, that the Terran Empire was able to sustain itself.

The Enterprise 2-parter shows the Terran Empire to be unstable and fighting off widespread rebellion before the appearance of the Defiant gives Empress Hoshi a power base to quell any problems.

Once the rest of the quadrant caught up with the technological level the Prime Universe gave them, and Mirror Spock attempted reforms, the status quo seemed to re-establish itself and the Empire was doomed.

 

[fireproof78]

t’s only by accident, and “our” USS Defiant and 23rd century tech appearing in their universe in the 22nd century, that the Terran Empire was able to sustain itself.

That doesn't really answer the question at all. "Deserved" implies a standard of some measure, not whether or not they can maintain the power base. Of course the Terran Empire thrives off of imbalance of power; that's how many empires work. What makes this one less deserving.

 

[Macintosh]

The resolution of the Burn in season three for me. I think I'd have rather it be all about Burnham instead than that complete bullshit.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The resolution of the Burn in season three for me. I think I'd have rather it be all about Burnham instead than that complete bullshit.

Having dilithium being rendered inert by the psychic sub-space backlash of someone in pain is about as Star Trek as it gets

 

[Macintosh]

Having dilithium being rendered inert by the psychic sub-space backlash of someone in pain is about as Star Trek as it gets

It's like all uranium being suddenly rendered inert because someone from Pripyat stubbed their toe.