Good Will Riker
Admiral
Was this ever mentioned in any of the episodes?
When did Benjamin Sisko come to terms with the Borg?
- Thread starter Good Will Riker
- Start date
I thought he came to terms with them after the pilot, especially with Picard/Locutus.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
That was pretty fast considering it took Picard over 6 years.
Good Will Riker said:
That was pretty fast considering it took Picard over 6 years.
Well, it did take Sisko nearly three years to get over the death of his wife, which was a result of the encounter with the Borg. By extension, Sisko held Picard/Locutus responsible, and when he came to terms with Jennifer's death, he was able to let go of his anger in regards to the Borg.
People deal with things differently. Picard is admittedly a different man than Sisko (as Q observed, "Picard would've never hit me" and Sisko countered, "I'm not Picard"). While it was not dealt with much in DS9, which iirc was a decision on the producers not to have the Borg become the main adversary for the show, it was brought up again in a short in the Malibu comic.
In that issue, which compromised two other stories, Sisko re-enacts the Battle of Wolf 359 on the holosuit on the anniversary of Jennifer's death, but with him in sole command of the Saratoga. This makes both Jake and Jadzia concerned, but at the end Sisko says that he did to remind himself that no matter what he did, Jennifer would still have died.
I don't know. I wouldn't call the conversation between Sisko and Picard in any way 'coming to terms with the Borg'...OR with Locutus.
It always pissed me off that Picard was such an asshole in that conversation when they first met - this pissed me off right from the very first moments of watching DS9 when it first aired. Not even a 'Hey, by the way...I'm sorry I FRAKKIN' KILLED YOUR WIFE, dude.'
Instead we get some bullshit speech from him about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of serving in an 'ideal environment'.
Of course, the environment would be alot more 'ideal' if he hadn't bloomin' KILLED THE GUY'S WIFE.
It always pissed me off that Picard was such an asshole in that conversation when they first met - this pissed me off right from the very first moments of watching DS9 when it first aired. Not even a 'Hey, by the way...I'm sorry I FRAKKIN' KILLED YOUR WIFE, dude.'
Instead we get some bullshit speech from him about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of serving in an 'ideal environment'.
Of course, the environment would be alot more 'ideal' if he hadn't bloomin' KILLED THE GUY'S WIFE.
Yes but the whole episode was geared towards Sisko coming to grips with the pain of losing his wife, which was caused by the Borg. His experience with the Prophets was a means by which that was helped. Michael Piller in the book on the making of DS9 stated as much. The visual clue that Sisko takes Picard's hand is meant to indicate to us that he has, at least, come to grips with the past and is now about to embrace his future.
It isn't always what is said, but what isn't that determines what a scene is about. The final scene between Picard and Sisko, which I just called up on my iTunes, is filled with gestures by the actors that indicate the real content of the scene and not by what is said about "putting Bajor on the map." Both start out on opposite sides of the desk, then come together and shake, then Picard leaves with a lingering shot on Sisko before we cut away. The composition of the scene indicates somesort of bridge being made.
It always pissed me off that Picard was such an asshole in that conversation when they first met - this pissed me off right from the very first moments of watching DS9 when it first aired. Not even a 'Hey, by the way...I'm sorry I FRAKKIN' KILLED YOUR WIFE, dude.'
Instead we get some bullshit speech from him about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of serving in an 'ideal environment'.
Of course, the environment would be alot more 'ideal' if he hadn't bloomin' KILLED THE GUY'S WIFE.
Once again, both in character in that scene. Although, I have to agree, Picard was an ass but he's always been a character who hasn't dealt with emotion directly and by Stewart's performance you can tell that Picard is uncomfortable and doesn't really know how to deal with the situation. It starts immediately with Sisko's statement about meeting in battle. So, Picard does the only thing that he knows how to do, spout out about responsibilities and Starfleet duty, blah blah blah.
Moreover, Sisko doesn't come out smelling like roses in that scene either. He comes in very confrontational from the start, which with the state of his character at the beginning of the series is consistent. He is angry, hurt and doesn't want to be where he is.
I don't Sisko ever came to terms with the Borg, because he never needed to. It wasn't the Borg that he was fixated upon -- it was the death of his wife. He would have had the same reaction to his wife's death irrelevent of who had been the instrument of her death. The Borg themselves were besides the ponit.
I'm not aware of evidence that Picard had any way to know Sisko was at the battle of Wolf 359, or that his wife was killed in it. Picard's task is, clearly, delivering crew and supplies as well as official orders; what in that would suggest ``by the way, review the personal histories of all the people being dropped off on the station so that you can be properly contrite for that instance when the Borg abducted you and ripped your entire personality away from you and used your every thought to destroy the Federation you love because you weren't strong enough to fight them off''?PKTrekGirl said:
Of course, the environment would be alot more 'ideal' if he hadn't bloomin' KILLED THE GUY'S WIFE.
It would've been interesting to have showed the Borg on DS9 for the sole purpose of seeing Sisko's reaction.
He might've done an Ahab, stealing the Defiant for a suicidal attack run.
Or not.
He might've done an Ahab, stealing the Defiant for a suicidal attack run.
Or not.
Sisko came to terms with the Borg right in the Emissary episode itself. The wormhole aliens forced him to deal with his feelings about the Borg and move on. All right there in Emissary. Although it wouldn't surprise me if nowadays TV shows that air DS9 butcher the crap out of it and only air bits and pieces, thus making plot points like this become unclear.
In Emissary Cpt Sisko came to terms/accepted his wifes death... that was his cause of his angst.
I thought Sisko was more of the ass in that meeting. Picard greets him politely and warmly and Sisko is a little cold to him so Picard asks if anything is wrong. Sisko then drops the bomb that "we met in battle. I was on the Saratoga at Wolf 359." What a jackass thing to say. He should know that Picard had no control over what happened and had no idea that Sisko was there. Also Sisko was deliberately trying to make Picard feel like shit so i would say that Picard was generous in not yelling at Sisko right there on the spot. ESPECIALLY with Sisko being a more junior officer. I mean it does suck for Sisko losing his wife like that and i understand his anger about it but he handled it very badly for something that happened 3 years before.
Nebusj said:
I'm not aware of evidence that Picard had any way to know Sisko was at the battle of Wolf 359, or that his wife was killed in it. Picard's task is, clearly, delivering crew and supplies as well as official orders; what in that would suggest ``by the way, review the personal histories of all the people being dropped off on the station so that you can be properly contrite for that instance when the Borg abducted you and ripped your entire personality away from you and used your every thought to destroy the Federation you love because you weren't strong enough to fight them off''?PKTrekGirl said:
Of course, the environment would be alot more 'ideal' if he hadn't bloomin' KILLED THE GUY'S WIFE.
You might not 'review the personal histories of all the people'...but you would certainly review the history of the friggin' COMMANDER of the place.
I mean, if you were at all competent, which Picard presumably was.
Or are you saying that the Enterprise is nothing but a big 'ole bus service which just ferries people around with no interest at all in who is being dropped off with the express purpose of bringing Bajor into the Federation?
Take people here....take 'em there....take 'em here....take 'em there... "Gee...I don't know who is on this vessel...we just do what we're told."
Yes sir!
If Picard were going to be Sisko's commanding officer, certainly. Or if Picard were going to be attached permanently to Deep Space Nine's sector of space, that would be reasonable. But Picard had absolutely no role working with Sisko: Picard was delivering orders he didn't originate, for operations he wouldn't supervise, and the success or failure of which would not be reported to Picard.
Picard didn't even provide Sisko his taxi service to Deep Space Nine: that was whoever the heck was the Captain of that other ship. I wonder if that Captain knew about Sisko's wife.
How long do you feel Picard should spend studying the biographies of everyone he will ever spend five minutes of his life talking to?
PKTrekGirl said:
Take people here....take 'em there....take 'em here....take 'em there... "Gee...I don't know who is on this vessel...we just do what we're told."
Only he wasn't on the Enterprise. The script specifices as such. He arrived from a prior ship. That's why when Sisko meets Picard for the first time in the episode it really is for the first time - surely Picard would have debriefed him before he arrived had it been otherwise.
As far as Picard being unfamiliar with Sisko's track record... I just chalk that up to dramatic license. Had Picard read over it, would we have this exchange?
'Have we met before?'
'Yes sir, we met in battle.'
PKTrekGirl said:
It always pissed me off that Picard was such an asshole in that conversation when they first met - this pissed me off right from the very first moments of watching DS9 when it first aired. Not even a 'Hey, by the way...I'm sorry I FRAKKIN' KILLED YOUR WIFE, dude.'
Instead we get some bullshit speech from him about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of serving in an 'ideal environment'.
I don't think that is fair. For one, Picard's inflection in his voice changed so very much when Sisko brought up Wolf 359. Picard knew it was a total shot down, and what could he say. You want a Trek series where they tell you everything instead of showing. Wasn't that a complaint with Voyager and Enterprise. Picard didn't need to say he was "Sorry" because you could sense it in his voice. I also don't think he would have believed it if he had said he was sorry because of the pain that Picard felt after the experience. It's just not simple and these scenes showed that. I thought it was a very human scene, and as for the speech, well he's right, and he's the captain.
