What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

[Christopher]

Well, it's a component of the impulse engines. Basic impulse engines don't have the mass-reduction coils, but more sophisticated ones do. (Maybe this is what Scotty meant in "Balance of Terror" when he said the Romulans' "power is simple impulse" -- that they were just using pure rockets instead of mass reduction and thus weren't as maneuverable at impulse as the Enterprise.)

 

[Belz...]

I'd buy that the impulse engines (always described as conventional rockets in the 1960's and 1970's tie-in material, by the way, and very strongly suggested as such in TOS) are fully effective only when a low-level warp field is also used, but not that the impulse engines themselves reduce the ship's mass.

So they are more effective when the warp engines are also online. This might explain why the 1701-D's nacelles were always on.

Another reasonable alternative would be that inertial dampeners are required for high impulse acceleration. Or, I could by that inertial dampeners are implemented via a low-level warp field.

The incredible G forces that the inertial dampeners deal with should mean that weapon hits on the hull have no effect on the crew. Alas, drama rules.

However, the very term "impulse engine" implies propulsion via Newton's third law.

I always thought it meant they were a type of nuclear pulse propulsion.

 

[Belz...]

But you'd still need some kind of secondary propulsion system based on conventional thrust. An Alcubierre-type warp field could only take you in a preferred direction if you had already thrust your ship in that direction before you engaged it.

Really ? Again, I was under the impression that the Alcubierre drive actually moved the space around the ship.

 

[cooleddie74]

However, the very term "impulse engine" implies propulsion via Newton's third law. Hence, the original conception of them as nothing but rockets, possibly using nuclear fusion as the reaction.

That's the general impression I've gotten for years now. The "atomic matter piles" referred to in the TOS episode "Court Martial" as existing aboard the Starship Republic might very well have been connected to the ship's impulse drive, plus there've been a few times in the history of the franchise when sublight impulse propulsion was referred to as using nuclear fusion reactions. To be frank, I've accepted Starfleet impulse drives as being nuclear in nature since I was very young and learning what I could about the designs of starships in the franchise.

 

[Christopher]

So they are more effective when the warp engines are also online. This might explain why the 1701-D's nacelles were always on.

No -- just because warp engines can be used as mass-reduction fields, that doesn't mean they automatically reduce mass. We're talking about two different spacetime metrics (i.e. shapes for the fabric of space) here. A warp field would be a pretty severe distortion of the shape of spacetime, akin to a very large, dense, and quite oddly shaped body comprising positive and negative mass. A mass-reduction field would be a flattening-out of spacetime, a cancellation of the spacetime distortion created by the mass of the ship. So the same technology is needed to make them both, but that technology is being applied in very different ways. A warp engine could have its field configuration tuned to have a mass-reduction effect, but then it wouldn't be tuned for warp drive.

However, the very term "impulse engine" implies propulsion via Newton's third law.

I always thought it meant they were a type of nuclear pulse propulsion.

Which are an example of propulsion via Newton's third law, i.e. reaction thrust.

But you'd still need some kind of secondary propulsion system based on conventional thrust. An Alcubierre-type warp field could only take you in a preferred direction if you had already thrust your ship in that direction before you engaged it.

Really ? Again, I was under the impression that the Alcubierre drive actually moved the space around the ship.

My understanding is that the directionality of the field is unpredictable unless you already have a motion vector (although relative to what is the question). I'm afraid I can't remember where I read it, though, and I'm having no luck tracking it down with a keyword search.

 

[throwback]

Christopher,

What is the source for your information?

The first instance where the term rocket was used, in reference to the impulse engines, was in "The Cage".

The first instance where fusion is associated with the impulse engines is "The Doomsday Machine".

The SS Mariposa had pulse fusion warp engines.

Fusion reactors are used for powering main power in spacecraft. When DS9's fusion reactor was hit in "The Visionary", the station lost main power.

So, both the warp and impulse engines power main power, and when both were damaged on the Enterprise, the ship lost main power. Auxiliary power was damaged by other means. The question for me is this, why didn't they attempt to restore impulse power first, then warp power? Is restoring impulse power more difficult than warp power?

 

[cbspock]

In Doomsday Machine they also mentioned fuel being exhausted for the Impulse Engines when they had to power the ship in a combat situation for length of time.

Maybe bringing up the warp core was the easier fix, also maybe they figured they may still need weapons and shields if the Vengeance came back online.


-Chris

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I assumed that without the ship's warp field, the thrusters would be insufficient to slow or correct the Enterprise's descent. Once the warp reactor is fixed, we see the warp engines begin to turn as power is restored, generating the mass reduction field necessary to make the thrusters worthwhile.

Does the warp field really do that ? I was under the impression that warp drive simply moves space around the ship, rendering the need for thrust moot.

By TNG: Deja Q, and what they did to move the asteroid moon, warp fields reduce inertial mass.

They did the same thing in DS9 "Emissary" using the station's deflector shields. Reducing the mass of the station allowed them to move it to the Denorious belt in only two days using the station's attitude control thrusters.

 

[Belz...]

No -- just because warp engines can be used as mass-reduction fields, that doesn't mean they automatically reduce mass.

I didn't say it did.

Which are an example of propulsion via Newton's third law, i.e. reaction thrust.

Yes. I was just adding information.

 

[Christopher]

Christopher,

What is the source for your information?

Which information? I already said I couldn't track down my source for the last thing. The others are just basic physics.

The first instance where fusion is associated with the impulse engines is "The Doomsday Machine".

Although the second pilot's reference to the impulse points decaying to lead implies that they were meant to be made of uranium, i.e. that the impulse engines were assumed to be fission-powered.

 

[cooleddie74]

I was going to mention Gary Mitchell's remarks about the impulse deck power packs "decaying to lead" but didn't. That's just another piece of info from TOS that indicates the Enterprise's impulse engines are based on nuclear reactions. Thanks for mentioning that line of dialogue.