What's the worst canon decision in the history of Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Unimatrix Q, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For me it was the introduction of the Borg Queen as well as instant assimilation by nanoprobes and the subsequent defanging of the Borg.

    Which canon introduction or addition do you hate the most?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard and Dougherty saying the Romulans acquired Warp Drive "a century ago".

    A) They shouldn't have taken everything from "Balance of Terror" so literally when Scotty said the Romulan ship had "simple impulse". Maybe that's all they could detect.

    B) If Earth was capable of interstellar travel in the 22nd Century and Romulus wasn't, then it would've made the Earth/Romulan War pretty tough for the Romulans. Earth ships would be able to outrun them, outmaneuver them, and the Romulans would be no match, let alone be able to dictate any terms in negotiating a treaty.

    C) The Romulans have a Quantum Singularity Drive, which takes us back to A.

    D) The Romulans were already secretly collaborating with Vulcan High Command in ENT. See the Vulcan Trilogy from the fourth season.

    E) PIC reinforces that the Romulans are the Federation's oldest (current) enemy. And that they've been enemies for 250 years.

    So that line from Insurrection, "A century ago, warp drive transformed the Romulans from "petty thugs" into an Empire" is just dumb all the way around. It's also a mischaracterization of the Romulans. They're a lot of things, but "petty thugs" isn't one of them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  3. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Next Gen episode where they let Soren be reprogrammed and went "oh well" and left was pretty vile.
     
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  4. Sarxus

    Sarxus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    To me, it's probably the changes in the looks of the Klingon foreheads, or to be more precisely the messed up continuity through DIS. As much as I enjoy the show, this is one of the things I can hardly look over. I mean:

    -TOS presents us the first variation of Klingons without their characteristic foreheads.

    -TNG introduces the characteristic look of Klingons with those iconic foreheads. I don't know for sure, but I could imagine that back then people didn't ask too many questions on why they looked so different than in TOS. It was probably seen as a simple question of design and I think there was, unlike today, no urge to demand an in-universe explanation for everything.

    -DS9 targeted the issue in the TOS-crossover episode "Trials and Tribble-ations". I only saw that episode once so far, but if memory serves, Worf is being asked why the Klingons looked so different back then and he says that this is something Klingons don't like talking about it. So the show implies here that there actually is an in-universe reason for the change but doesn't make a big deal out of it, seems like it's more meant to be a funny reverence.

    -ENT, taking place about 100 years before TOS, brought the TNG-era Klingons back for no reason, other than maybe they thought Klingons looking like the TOS versions would irritate possible new watchers who only know the TNG-era Klingons. At least, in season 4 the show corrects its continuity error by creating a plot where the Klingons are given medicine that makes their foreheads disappear, stating that at some point they might return. So this fits perfectly into the universe and explains why they had their typical foreheads in ENT, didn't have them in TOS but have them again in TNG. Problem solved, as it seems.

    -But then DIS came, taking place only about ten years before TOS (where Klingons don't have their typical foreheads) and had Klingons with their typical foreheads, probably for the same reasons they included them in ENT.

    So, while it had been explained why the typical foreheads were there in ENT, were not there in TOS and were there again in TNG, it makes zero sense that in between ENT and TOS they came back in DIS and disappeared again about ten years later in TOS.
     
  5. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    Kirk’s lame death. If they couldn’t manage better than that, they should have left his fate ambiguous.

    Close second: TNG’s bizarre decision to give the Romulans ridged foreheads when the whole point of their first appearance was that they look like Vulcans.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Luckily, it isn't actually that straightforward.

    The bit about warp drive involves no dating cues in itself. There is no mention of a "century" there, only that warp allowed "thugs" to become "an empire". And the Romulans supposedy were very much an Empire back in 2151 already, when Archer first met them (out there in a location that sorta suggests the Romulans got there by warp).

    That somebody thought Romulans could be contained "a century ago" in turn is sorta inevitable: there'd be no point in saying so before the 2150s, and little point in saying so during the silence of the 2160s-2260s.

    So it's a good thing there wasn't such a line in the movie. And "petty thugs" isn't what Romulans are supposed to be. It's what they were supposed to be, before warp happened. We've just failed to see that era so far.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, introducing the Borg is probably one of the worst. The Q are probably a close second, but largely inevitable given the plethora of noncorporeal lifeforms from TOS.
     
  8. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't make shit up. It's in the movie. I'll go directly to the script.
     
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  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Link to the Script

    DOUGHERTY: Jean-Luc, there are six hundred people down there. We'll be able to use the regenerative properties of this radiation to help billions. ...The Son'a have developed a procedure to collect the metaphasic particles from the planets rings.

    PICARD: A planet in Federation space.

    DOUGHERTY: That's right. We have the planet. They have the technology. ...A technology we can't duplicate. You know what that makes us? ... Partners.

    PICARD: Our partners are nothing more than petty thugs.

    DOUGHERTY: On Earth, petroleum once turned petty thugs into world leaders. Warp drive transformed a bunch of Romulan thugs into an Empire. We can handle the Son'a. I'm not worried about that.

    PICARD: Someone probably said the same thing about the Romulans a century ago.
     
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  10. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Having the Time of My Life Moderator

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    The need to explain the changes in Klingon appearance over the years. Just make the changes you want as makeup/costuming techniques and budgets improve and leave the crazy theorizing to fandom.
     
  11. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes to both.

    Still hoping they'll bring back Kirk while they've still got the option of de-ageing Shat.
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fans had already done so long before DS9 or ENT.
     
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  13. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    It works if you assume some Vulcans have ridged foreheads or just accept the PIC statement that ridged Romulans are 'stubborn Northerners'
     
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  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Making Spock scream "Khaaaaaaan!" in Into Darkness. The mirrored Wrath of Khan death scene was fine. Khan blood was fine. The scream was pure fucking cringe, I facepalmed in the cinema and it's what EVERYONE remembers. It was so bad.

    And I love that movie. But that moment is up there with "Martha? Martha? Why are you saying that name?!" in Batman Vs Superman.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    They should have named Kirk's mother "Amanda".
     
  16. Damian

    Damian Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I actually liked that. Since their redesigned appearance first appeared in TMP fans have speculated on that for years and a couple of Star Trek novels offered up potential explanations.

    I know Gene Roddenberry wanted fans just to assume they always appeared that way. But come on, Trekkies just accept something at face value without trying to theorize some in story explanation :lol:. Perhaps it if was an alien only seen once or twice in the original series, or it was some subtle change.

    But Klingons were arguably a favorite villain in the original series and the change was pretty substantial.

    Even still, in canon during most of the Berman years it was left be. They generally went with the upgraded look first seen in TSFS and just left it be (obviously different Klingons differed in appearance from each other as one would expect, but they were obviously based on TSFS...and in general I considered TSFS appearance just a refined version of TMP).

    It wasn't until "Trials and Tribble-ations" that any difference was even acknowledged in canon. Probably because since Klingons appeared there they couldn't just ignore it. I mean, I suppose they could have pretended they didn't look different but I don't think that would have worked. And I think they were looking for a little comic relief. Honestly I think they would have been content to leave it as that.

    BUT...now that they did confirm there was a difference in appearance they then sort of backed themselves into a corner. So they finally decided to tackle it.

    I did like their answer. Some novels have speculated that perhaps it was genetic, and that made the most sense. It also explained a bit how Klingons in the original series even behaved a bit differently, more ruthless, yet more prone to fear at the same time. So even some more subtle changes were offered an explanation. And it also allowed for a potential 'curing' at some point to explain how Kor, Koloth and Kang looked like TSFS-version Klingons by the time of DS9.

    Discovery sort of blew that out of the water. I'm not at all fond of the Giger-Klingons in Discovery (but it's more than just continuity, I just don't care for the appearance). They did make some adjustments in season 2 and you saw some that looked a bit more familiar, like an upgrade on TSFS design. I kind of wished they threw in a couple smooth-headed Klingons in the background just to tie it to the original series and Enterprise a bit more.

    Awe, I loved the Borg. Granted they got overused in Voyager and I preferred them more in "Q, Who?". I did love them in First Contact though. I understand some of the issues with the Borg Queen, though in retrospect it sort of makes sense. But just their appearance in FC--they were always creepy, but something about the glistening sheen, the corpse like body appearance, the camera angles and just the way they'd look at everyone made them that much creepier.
     
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  17. Damian

    Damian Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, we had a debate about that on the most disappointing movie board. I have some issues with the entire scene because of its cutesy way of redoing TWOK's ending--but Pine gives a great performance in that scene. And the "Khan" scream just totally ruins everything.

    Here you had a poignant scene and that totally pulled me out of the movie. I didn't know if I wanted to burst out laughing or roll my eyes. I couldn't believe it. Not the reaction they were going for I'm sure.

    And I always said I think even Abrams thought it was over the top because the scene goes like "Khaaaaaaaaa" cut away to the Vengeance falling to Earth.

    My advice---never try to out Shat the Shat. You'll lose every time ;)
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And I think such an explanation works even with Discovery Klingons. If the Klingons are working to "Remain Klingon!" with the ridges and whatnot, then wouldn't efforts at genetic engineering create some rather interesting results? Or, with some of the great houses having more "pure lines" there might be more inbreeding, similar to royal families from Europe and ancient Egypt.

    I can get not liking the design; certainly the TMP and Klingons in the comics of that era were among my least favorite designs to come out. But, as you say, fans can explain anything, if they are willing to ;)

    For me, the Borg are kind of like the anti-Klingon. The more I learn about them the less I care. The Klingons were an alien race that I cared little for them but small bits, like TUC, ID, and DSC made them more appealing.
     
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  19. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    That's just a contrivance to reconcile what was a silly decision in the first place. Like if they started showing us Bajorans with no nose appliance and told us they come from Downtown Bajor.
     
  20. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The way that exchange is phrased has just enough ambiguity that you can assume the Romulans got warp drive more than a century ago. Assume that the Romulans got warp drive and became an Empire, say, 200 years before, and Earth's first encounter with them was a century ago (Although since we're in the TNG era, Picard really should've said "two centuries ago", since the Earth/Romulan War was 100 years before "Balance of Terror").

    I know that wasn't the intention of how that was written, but you can still make it fit if you just assume they're shifting from when Romulans got warp drive to when humans first encountered them.
     
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