What's the difference between a starbase and a "deep space" station?

[t_smitts]

Finally getting my Regula I model has got me thinking about space stations.

Starbases go back to the original series as ports for the Enterprise to visit. After the premiere of "Deep Space Nine", both TNG and later "Voyager" would occasionally reference other "Deep Space" stations, such as Deep Space 5 in "Parallels". (Of course, that's not getting into the question of where K-7 from "Trouble with Tribbles" fits into all this, if at all).

The fact that starbases have been numbered in the hundreds, while "Deep Spaces" have only had fairly low numbers suggests the latter was a fairly new term at the time of "DS9". So what's the difference? Why is DS9 not a starbase?

Is it because DS9 is a Bajoran facility, originally built by Cardassians? Well, the DS5 we see in "Parallels" is a reuse of the Regula I model, implying it's a Federation-built facility, so that's probably not it. Is it because it's located in a non-Federation system? Possibly (though, again, DS5 was clearly a Fed design). Does that mean DS9 would've changed its name, if Bajor joined the Federation? Perhaps starbases are meant to service Starfleet ships only, whereas "Deep Space" stations take civilian and non-Fed ships, as we know DS9 does.

What do you think?

 

[Tim Thomason]

I think Deep Space 9 (and the entire Deep Space station program, both the 2360s ones and the K stations from the 2260s) was just a type of starbase, one operating in what the core Federation considered Deep Space. K-7 operated near disputed territory with the Klingons. DS9 operates in neutral space on the border with the Cardassian Union.

This old thread details some of the peculiarities and instances where DS9 is referred to as a starbase. IMO, starbase is just a generic term used by multiple polities to refer to waystations and ports for their star cruisers and spaceships. Some starbases are space stations, some are planetary installations, many are both.

 

[Verteron]

Most of the 'Deep Space' stations we've seen have been facilities either near the edge of Federation space, or just outside it. Examples, Deep Space Station K-7 (Klingon neutral zone border, which is what I assume the K stands for) or Deep Space 9 (Cardassian DMZ).

My theory is that 'Deep Space' stations tend to be more temporary facilities at the 'front' of Federation territory, which will later be upgraded to full Starbases (much larger orbital facilities or bases on planet surfaces) if/when the Federation becomes more entrenched in a star system or annexes it through membership or colonisation.

For example, once Bajor joins the Federation, and Starfleet has a permanent presence there, I'd assume they'd bring in planetary defence systems, sensor grids, comms relays, traffic control, all at a much grander scale than DS9 could provide. When that happens the time is ripe for a Spacedock-style Starbase, which I'd assume are horrendously expensive to build even with the Federation's resources, likely have a permanent population of hundreds of thousands, but of course provide massive facilities to their host system, using Starfleet to project power.

But certainly not an asset you'd want to lose to the Dominion, even temporarily.

A good current day comparison would be, say, Bagram Air Base compared to Pearl Harbour/Hickam. Both very capable in their role/theatre, but on an entirely different scale.

 

[Falconer]

A space station is an artificial structure in space. They can be free floating, or they can be orbiting a planet. They can governmental, or military, or civilian (scientific, corporate, etc.).

Star Bases are Starfleet’s chief bases, arranged strategically throughout Federation space. In TOS, it would seem they are all planets. Notably SB 11 (which we see on screen in two episodes), SB 12 (“a planet in the Gamma 400 star system. Our command base in this sector”) and SB 6 (a “lovely planet” per IS). It’s reasonable to assume these planets do have orbital space stations (spacedocks), considering the kind of repair work they obviously do there (consider the famous SB11 registry chart).

So, Deep Space Station K-7, on the face of it means a space station in deep space, i.e., on the frontier of the Federation far from its core worlds. The K probably refers to it being on the Klingon border, which is borne out by the episode. K-7 is non-military, with a civilian administrator.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

"Deep Space" Stations should border UFP teritory and be the demarcation between "The Frontier" / Open Space and UFP sovereign territory..

 

[Sci]

Well, fist off, it seems to me that Deep Space Station K-7 is probably a civilian installation, not a Starfleet starbase; the station manager is clearly a civilian.

I figure that there's no real relationship between "Deep Space Stations" and "Deep Space X" stations -- it's coincidentally similar nomenclature.

I have always assumed that starbases located outside of Federation space are given the "Deep Space X" designation, and that starbases within UFP space are given the "Starbase X" designation. So Starbase 375 was probably located within UFP space, but Starbase Deep Space 9 was located in Bajoran space.

If I were the Grand High Pumba of All Star Trek, Starbase 1 would be the real name of Spacedock in orbit of Earth, Starbase 2 would be the main Starfleet space station in orbit of Vulcan, Starbase 3 in orbit of Andor, Starbase 4 in orbit of Tellar, Starbase 5 in orbit of Alpha Centauri, Starbase 6 in orbit of Mars, Starbase 7 in orbit of Rigel, Starbase 8 in orbit of Vega, etc... Every Federation Member State's capital planet would have a major starbase in orbit.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Every Federation Member State's capital planet would have a major starbase in orbit.

IMO, I have Every Federation Star System have every Star-Planet Lagrange Point's 1-5 occupied by larger class StarFleet StarBases and every Planet-Moon Lagrange Point's occupied by smaller class of StarFleet StarBases.

 

[t_smitts]

If I were the Grand High Pumba of All Star Trek, Starbase 1 would be the real name of Spacedock in orbit of Earth, Starbase 2 would be the main Starfleet space station in orbit of Vulcan, Starbase 3 in orbit of Andor, Starbase 4 in orbit of Tellar, Starbase 5 in orbit of Alpha Centauri, Starbase 6 in orbit of Mars, Starbase 7 in orbit of Rigel, Starbase 8 in orbit of Vega, etc... Every Federation Member State's capital planet would have a major starbase in orbit.

I'm just imagining Tellarites b!tching about being #4.

In practice, we're talking about over 700 facilities. It's hard to imagine them all being located on or around Fed planets. Does the UFP even have that many habitable planets in its territory?

 

[Sci]

I'm just imagining Tellarites b!tching about being #4.

The first Federation Councillor for Tellar probably did, and then the first Federation President told him that it would be the best of the first six starbases because it would have the whales.

In practice, we're talking about over 700 facilities. It's hard to imagine them all being located on or around Fed planets. Does the UFP even have that many habitable planets in its territory?

The UFP has at least 150 Members, so right off the bat I don't think having a starbase in orbit of every Member's capital world, or somewhere in their capital world's star system, would be a problem. And you'd think that the security guarantee of having a starbase (and a dedicated defense fleet attached to that starbase) would be a pretty strong incentive for pursuing UFP Membership.

 

[Timo]

That the UFP or Starfleet would only be up to Deep Space 9, rather than DS 227 or 32596 or whatever, makes me think that these designations are actually short-lived and recycled.

That is, yeah, "deep space" in the name means "outside UFP proper", even if the relevant border happens to be within an hour's travel from San Francisco. But the UFP expands. So stations originally established in deep space by the above definition become stations within UFP space sooner or later - and the DS number is liberated for reuse. The DS installation then might become a starbase. Or then something else.

So far, we haven't heard of a Deep Space installation that would explicitly be within UFP borders: neutrality and the ability to engage the enemy in relatively benign terms, as in competition with the Klingons over Sherman's at DSK-7, or competition with the Breen at DS3. We also haven't heard of a Deep Space installation that would be far out in space: it's almost trivially easy to reach DS9 or DSK-7.

As for starbases, we have seen all sorts. It's probably again more a question of location than of the nature of the facilities. A copy of a tiny relay station can be a starbase, or a vast mushroom can. Or then a location might be, even before the installation of facilities. "Measure of a Man" sees the establishing of a starbase with a very low number in the late 24th century, suggesting that whatever the SB number might be, it isn't an ordinal to denote order of construction.

Would there be starbases next to homeworlds? The point for founding the very first in ENT would have been to establish a base away from home, as home already had facilities aplenty. We never really hear of a starbase next to a homeworld - when we see an installation, it's just a base, and naturally enough, as it isn't out there at the stars but right here.

(Starbase 1 of DIS is a weird anomaly there, being literally neither here nor there. One hundred AU from Earth, it orbits a copy of Earth, possibly a terraformed asteroid or a hologram to remind the crews of home. Klingons can conquer it and still fail to reach Earth. Physically, it's a multi-starship base identical to dozens that orbit Earth at a few thousand kilometers. Perhaps we just heard wrong and it's 100 ly from Earth?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FederationHistorian]

A starbase is a military installation that can be space based or land based, with no civilian presence, and in the heart of Federation territory.

Whereas a deep space station is intended to have a civilian presence, and tend to be on the borders of Federation space (ex, K-7 on the Klingon border, DS9 near Bajor).

That's the intention, I think .

 

[Verteron]

Whereas a deep space station is intended to have a civilian presence, and tend to be on the borders of Federation space (ex, K-7 on the Klingon border, DS9 near Bajor).

Spacedock has a significant civilian presence as well. I've always assumed this scene takes place in a civilian-run bar on the station, at any rate.

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[Timo]

Starbases from the get-go had a significant civilian presence, with Sam Cogley and (for reasons still unexplained) Ben Finney's daughter present on the very first one with nary a comment...

But Spacedock Earth isn't said to be a Starbase in any aired Trek, nor do I think McCoy is aboard it in that scene. Rather, he'd appear to be down at San Francisco, which is also where his friends bust him out of that jail.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Verteron]

Starbases from the get-go had a significant civilian presence, with Sam Cogley and (for reasons still unexplained) Ben Finney's daughter present on the very first one with nary a comment...

But Spacedock Earth isn't said to be a Starbase in any aired Trek, nor do I think McCoy is aboard it in that scene. Rather, he'd appear to be down at San Francisco, which is also where his friends bust him out of that jail.

Timo Saloniemi

You might be right, although I'd assume a planetside bar might have some windows

 

[Timo]

That would require matte paintings...

...Although I'd assume space facilities to have matte paintings in-universe to remind the patrons of home.

Whether Kirk dines with Morrow up in orbit or down in San Francisco or perhaps Brussels, we can debate: transporting as such seems effortless, and the heroes only ever need to inconvenience Mr Adventure because they want to beam into the Enterprise and may need a Starfleet unit plus authority beyond their own to accomplish that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Verteron]

That would require matte paintings...

...Although I'd assume space facilities to have matte paintings in-universe to remind the patrons of home.

Whether Kirk dines with Morrow up in orbit or down in San Francisco or perhaps Brussels, we can debate: transporting as such seems effortless, and the heroes only ever need to inconvenience Mr Adventure because they want to beam into the Enterprise and may need a Starfleet unit plus authority beyond their own to accomplish that.

Agreed, that scene certainly seems to be on the planet, but I don't think we ever see McCoy in SF - just Kirk, Chekov, Sulu and Uhura. It was clear McCoy was unwell after they docked, so suppose I'd headcannned that he had stayed on Spacedock for medical care, but perhaps been given some limited privileges to relax on the station.

Privileges that were then revoked after the issue with the attempted charter to Genesis in the bar, as he ended up in a brig on Spacedock rather than a facility on Earth. But I see the sequence could be interpreted various ways.

I appreciate they ended up in "Old City Station" to beam to Enterprise, but Spacedock is a city in space - may well have an old quarter!

 

[Vger23]

I always figured that it was simply that a Starbase was a Starfleet installation, most likely in Federation Space and a Deep Space Station was a non-Starfleet installation (though it would have a Starfleet administrative presence) most likely in non-Federation space.

 

[Timo]

I appreciate they ended up in "Old City Station" to beam to Enterprise, but Spacedock is a city in space - may well have an old quarter!

That's a big part of the Star Trek charm: lack of money means they have to do amazing futuristic things (such as invent the transporter), or then it means the audience gets to vote on some pretty fundamental ambiguity between the mundane and the futuristic (such as whether they are on a planet or in orbit!).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

If I'm not mistaken, DS9 started out as an outpost.
It wasn't referred to as a starbase until about end of Season 3 and start of Season 4 (right around the time when the station defended itself against the Klingon fleet) and it received full blown upgrades in weapons, etc. to help defend it against the Dominion.

Outposts seem capable of providing some supplies to passing ships along with repairs, maintenance and general trade... starbases can do the same, but are heavily armed with (usually) capability of building full starships.

Not sure if Ds9 had ship building capabilities, but it was certainly large enough to support industrial grade replicators, etc.
We've seen that the mirror universe Terok Nor was capable of building the Defiant... so, I'd imagine that Ds9 could do the same if the need arose.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Spacedock has a significant civilian presence as well. I've always assumed this scene takes place in a civilian-run bar on the station, at any rate.

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Isn’t spackdock just an evolution of drydock and the Earth based shipyards? Which would explain the civilian presence.