coughTNZcough
What's the Big Lesson in STXI?
- Thread starter Anticitizen
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coughTNZcough
The moral: Do what feels right.
The lesson: There's no such thing as too many lense flares.
Oh, that's not racist at all...
The lesson: There's no such thing as too many lense flares.
Oh, that's not racist at all...
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Both of you have excellent points. Yes the kids today are very spoiled...they don't realize what they have and what they get without even having to work for it. I guess we can say that each successive generation has more then the one before it...right?
But then you can turn right around just like Mr. Hard did and blame the parents...which I do...they are ultimately responsible for this (this is just what I've seen in my life). I see it time and time again.... no rules, they don't have to do shit around the house, come and go as they please, everythings paid for...back talk.... up to all hours... watch whatever the hell they want....I could go on but the parents don't run a tight ship with child rearing and then they wonder why they have no authority!? I'm afraid to see when it's "their turn"...I bet they are going to be even worse then their parents....where the hell is that gonna leave us?
I do want to say that I believe my parents were too strict -- never flexible but today's parents are way too loose...somewhere in between those 2 extremes would do the world wonders.
It's the biggest message there is - and one that's traditional to Original Trek - death is inevitable, and how we cope with it shapes our lives.
**ahem!**
That last bit isn't a message in Star Trek or any Trek.
And there you have encapsulated the value and depth of Star Trek philosophizing in general.
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move along, nothing to see here...
(see M'Sharak's post 3 down from here for an explanation )
(see M'Sharak's post 3 down from here for an explanation
)
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The Lesson of STXI is actually very very simple
It's
And that is all you need to know from Trek
It's
Every other series Captain is inferior to Kirk
And that is all you need to know from Trek
Fixed. It should have read:
And there you have encapsulated the value and depth of Star Trek philosophizing in general.
oi! I did no such thing!
And there you have encapsulated the value and depth of Star Trek philosophizing in general.
Memo to self:
Find or construct appropriate "quote tag fail" thread bomb.
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And there you have encapsulated the value and depth of Star Trek philosophizing in general.
All this talk of messages is misplaced in my view. Great stories rarely have a clear message or moral. That said, they often have coherent ideas and thematic depth. That is another thing entirely. Some great stories are just an intriguing series of events, certainly, but generally there is more to it than that.
It wouldn't add anything to Trek XI if we could look at it and say that its message is that it is important to overcome loss, or whatever. That is trite and indeed something you could find in a fortune cookie. However, depicting loss in a variety of different ways and refraining from sketching an easy solution is the sort of thing that adds depth and resonance to a story. I think Trek XI does that to a certain degree. When I say it is jumbled, I mean the film is a bit cluttered and has so much going on that its themes are a bit submerged in the general rush to make sure every available demographic is targeted at every turn
Trek XI had some discernable themes, but I think the sequel would certainly benefit from being more intense in this regard.
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The greater element IS there. However, unlike other Trek films, the greater theme in STXI is destiny. Kirk is on a hero's journey - defeats his inner demon, and his path unfolds before him much like in a fantasy film as opposed to sci-fi. He is destined to be Captain. That is a very different universe than the Star Trek one we're used to. Sure, there is some element of destiny - but more in a Sci-Fi way as in First Contact - Zefram is certainly destined to make the flight, but it's not the same thing as how Kirk is predestined to be Captain in STXI.
There are also some more standard Trek, smaller moments: Spock's defiance of the Vulcan Academy I think was very much in the "original spirit".
This storytelling via destiny has its place, and perhaps it did need to be heavy in this film. With this story anyway. I hope that the sequel(s) will lay off it, as now we have our Kirk in the Captain's chair, which may have even been a Studio mandate come to think of it. Studio mandates are known to cause bad storytelling elements.
Hopefully now it will take a turn towards more classic sci-fi. Kirk going from cadet to Captain was just too ridiculous, and I like fantasy stories. The only thing missing at the end was a Wookie roar.
Even so, I found enough to like in this film to really enjoy it. You almost have to work at it not to. When I saw it opening night, most of the audience was delighted with it.
I'm hoping for a model of the vulcan science vessel, with your choice to put either Nimoy or Quinto in the cockpit.
I don't really think that's true.
Why is it that Kirk is Captain of the Enterprise in the mirror universe?
Why do the two extreme halves of Kirk's personality BOTH want to be Captain more than anything else?
Clearly, there is something driving him to the Captain's chair of that ship, even if radical differences are made to either his personality or the universe at large.
I really don't have a problem with destiny playing a part in heroic fiction, which is exactly what ST is.
Why shouldn't a story be about ideas? If it's just about beating bad guys, that's certainly not unique to ST and not very interesting as it's obvious that the good guys will win.
Well not all parents and children of a generation act the same way; still, I think that these things tend to go in cycles; this backlash against permissibility and ease, as well as the talk from politicians about high expectations/work/service, probably will have some impact on how the next parents act.
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Spock's Brain. Nuff said.