What's keeping me out of the theatre....

[Cakes488]

I think a CGI feature film of TOS can work very well in the not so distant future. Just about most of the images in the new Star Wars movies were CGI and soon enough they will be able to reproduce actors as they looked when they were young. Look at wht they did in the Lord Of the Rings Trilogy with the character of Gollum. There is enough stock footage and voice recordings of TOS to create a computer generated feature film in the future and I can't wait for that day to come! Science fiction meets cutting edge CGI, I am sure the use of this future technology would be something Gene Roddenberry would have approved.

yes...yes...YES..........YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oops another orgasm at work....I need to get a new chair at this point.

 

[trevanian]

I have seen examples of TOS-R on YouTube and a couple of episodes on through download. I could buy the sets where I work at Future Shop on staff purchase. But I won't pay for them until they perhaps one day end up in a remainder bin for maybe five bucks. Overall I just don't think much of what they did in the name of "enhancing" the show's f/x. I just feel they took a totally wrong approach for such a project.

Out of honest curiosity, I ask, what would you have preferred? Remastering the film without redoing the effects?

That would have worked for me. Also, assuming the original film elements are available (even just some of them), I wouldn't have a huge objection to their being recomped to minimize the matte line issue so many folks are hung up on.

 

[Praetor]

I have seen examples of TOS-R on YouTube and a couple of episodes on through download. I could buy the sets where I work at Future Shop on staff purchase. But I won't pay for them until they perhaps one day end up in a remainder bin for maybe five bucks. Overall I just don't think much of what they did in the name of "enhancing" the show's f/x. I just feel they took a totally wrong approach for such a project.

Out of honest curiosity, I ask, what would you have preferred? Remastering the film without redoing the effects?

That would have worked for me. Also, assuming the original film elements are available (even just some of them), I wouldn't have a huge objection to their being recomped to minimize the matte line issue so many folks are hung up on.

That is actually an incredibly good idea... although I have a suspicion that they are no longer available for recompositing.

I feel shallow admitting it, but I wish if they'd recreated the effects they'd have used a model, of the Enterprise at least. It's not that I dislike CGI, it's just that I can almost always tell, and on some level it bugs me. (And I realize that this was financially unlikely.)

 

[trevanian]

[
That is actually an incredibly good idea... although I have a suspicion that they are no longer available for recompositing.

I keep reading that they have been 'lost' but I just don't know that I believe it. I mean, it took them something like two decades to unearth all the music tapes from TOS, they were in a basement or under a stage, I think. Plus, if you recall, Irwin Allen shows passed elements back and forth at Fox on occasion, so if there was ever another Paramount space show, they could probably have dusted off and reused the TOS elements, and it is hard to believe they'd throw away a potential nickel-saver like that (if that sounds unlikely, remember that in the late 80s, a whole tv series was being planned around reusing the space fx from BSG78, the thing that David Gerrold messed with awhile.)

 

[Praetor]

Maybe they're just 'lost' as in they still exist but no one knows where they are? If the 33" model can be similarly lost, I don't see why that couldn't be the case for the film...

 

[Jimmy_C]

Last week on Wednesday I was off work because I had to work Saturday over the Easter weekend. On that day around 2pm I opted to chill for a bit and turned on the TV. It just so happened that I channel surfed past SPACE and "Courtmartial" was just starting.

Now I've seen this episode countless times. And while I enjoy watching things unfold even though I know it inside and out and backwards, beyond that I find myself watching the mechanics of how these things are put together.

It was the proverbial nail in the coffin for me.

For the last couple of years I've been reading and hearing about the next film. I'm as familiar as anyone with what we may expect. I've seen all the trailers and (having no intention to pay to see it) I had no problem reading the reviews and spoilers after the film's screening in Australia. On that point this film held few surprises and it's appears to be pretty much what I thought it would be.

And that's why "Courtmartial" nailed the lid shut.

"Courtmartial" is one of the best episodes of TOS. It ably delivers the kind of drama that TOS could be really good at. Every aspect of storytelling is well delivered (even knowing what we know about computer programming today). This was good science fiction. The writing is good, the acting is good and the story is good.

Star Trek had action and space battles and run-and-jump and adventure. But they were grounded in good story. Sure the production and f/x would have been more elaborate with more time and money, but the production standard rarely if ever detracted from what was unfolding in regards to story.

But for me one of the essential key elements of Star Trek at most times, and particularly at its best, was that it was smart. The show sometimes faltered but generally when I think of Star Trek I think of a wonderful balance of enthusiasm and intelligence in its storytelling.

When I look at the trailers for the forthcoming film in addition to what I know about it I see lots of energy and hyper polished f/x. But I see next to zero intelligence. Granted it's a reboot, and that's fair enough, but what I see are essentially poor story ideas lifted from previous films and rehashed together yet one more time.

And all that following other Trek films (and series) that have disappointed me brings me to appreciate TOS all the more.

Yes, I can see where things could have been done a bit differently in individual episodes. But overall Star Trek hit the target they were aiming for, even with the occasional missteps.

It wasn't just fun because of all the cool stuff we like to see in good SF. It was fun because even more so they generally took a smart approach to all the cool stuff.

It's that wonderful balance of enthusiasm and intelligence that keeps bringing me back. And that essential element that will keep me out of the theatre.

This review says that the new Star Trek movie is much more than a mindless popcorn flick:

It is one of the few movies I have seen in recent years which has celebrated intellectual endeavour, the informed weighing up of risks, the taking of responsibility. It is, well nigh uniquely in modern Hollywood, grown-up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...critic-gives-verdict-new-Star-Trek-movie.html

 

[Tyson]

This review says that the new Star Trek movie is much more than a mindless popcorn flick:

It is one of the few movies I have seen in recent years which has celebrated intellectual endeavour, the informed weighing up of risks, the taking of responsibility. It is, well nigh uniquely in modern Hollywood, grown-up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...critic-gives-verdict-new-Star-Trek-movie.html

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I am not a "purist" as most people would define one when it comes to Star Trek, I can even buy the basic premise of the new film; however everything Abrams and his writers are the most over hyped people in Hollywood right now. Nothing they've made has hinted to me that they're capable of producing something intellectually stimulating like that in any genuine capacity.

They're golden boys right now and everybody has been and will continue to eat out of their asses until they stop making cash.

 

[Warped9]

Out of honest curiosity, I ask, what would you have preferred? Remastering the film without redoing the effects?

That would have worked for me. Also, assuming the original film elements are available (even just some of them), I wouldn't have a huge objection to their being recomped to minimize the matte line issue so many folks are hung up on.

That is actually an incredibly good idea... although I have a suspicion that they are no longer available for recompositing.

I feel shallow admitting it, but I wish if they'd recreated the effects they'd have used a model, of the Enterprise at least. It's not that I dislike CGI, it's just that I can almost always tell, and on some level it bugs me. (And I realize that this was financially unlikely.)

When I look at a remastered transfer of 2001: A Space Odyssey or even Forbidden Planet I can see what f/x were possible in the 60s. It would be expensive and wholly unrealistic perhaps but I think it would have been more authentic looking and more faithful to the original artistic integrity if the new f/x looked like genuine state of the art '60s production and not so obviously early 21st century cgi. I just find the distinction between the remaining live-action footage and the new cgi jarring and something of a disconnect.

 

[trevanian]

Maybe they're just 'lost' as in they still exist but no one knows where they are? If the 33" model can be similarly lost, I don't see why that couldn't be the case for the film...

So is the story about GR's kid breaking that model now not legit anymore? I think that was the story that circulated about a decade back, and it fit with GR having taken the model home with him when the series ended.

 

[Praetor]

That would have worked for me. Also, assuming the original film elements are available (even just some of them), I wouldn't have a huge objection to their being recomped to minimize the matte line issue so many folks are hung up on.

That is actually an incredibly good idea... although I have a suspicion that they are no longer available for recompositing.

I feel shallow admitting it, but I wish if they'd recreated the effects they'd have used a model, of the Enterprise at least. It's not that I dislike CGI, it's just that I can almost always tell, and on some level it bugs me. (And I realize that this was financially unlikely.)

When I look at a remastered transfer of 2001: A Space Odyssey or even Forbidden Planet I can see what f/x were possible in the 60s. It would be expensive and wholly unrealistic perhaps but I think it would have been more authentic looking and more faithful to the original artistic integrity if the new f/x looked like genuine state of the art '60s production and not so obviously early 21st century cgi. I just find the distinction between the remaining live-action footage and the new cgi jarring and something of a disconnect.

Exactly! Well said.

Maybe they're just 'lost' as in they still exist but no one knows where they are? If the 33" model can be similarly lost, I don't see why that couldn't be the case for the film...

So is the story about GR's kid breaking that model now not legit anymore? I think that was the story that circulated about a decade back, and it fit with GR having taken the model home with him when the series ended.

Last I heard, Majel, God rest her soul, said Gene loaned it to someone for something and it was not returned, and then when it was asked for back it had been lost, and apparently they couldn't (or wouldn't) press charges of theft for some reason. She never said who, to my knowledge. I'll try to find a link.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Rod was asked about the model (the strongest rumor had him throwing it in the pool when he was a little kid), and while it does sound like something he might've done as a kid, no, didn't happen.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, Rod seems like a pretty honest guy to me. Unless there's been a massive cover-up on his behalf, I doubt he 'did it in.'

I'm curious who the model was loaned to, and while that person's identity wasn't revealed for public stoning.

 

[RAMA]

^^ Trolling? Because of a dissenting viewpoint?

Then the point has been missed.

I would love to see a new Star Trek that really delivered on the kind of things that made me love the original. It isn't that I'm predisposed to dislike something new.

It's because those in charge keep failing on delivering the things that made Star Trek good.

There are TNG and DS9 episodes I like because they did what TOS had done. But after that nothing.

And I did read reviews that actually said what I'm suspecting: lots of action, some decent humour, but not much smarts.

I will say, though, that if I can come across a download version then I'll see it. But I'm voting with my wallet and not paying.

In the past I've been surprised by some films that I ended up liking to an extent because they proved to be better than I'd expected. But in each of those cases there was still some smidgen of interest and possibility that it might come off well. But I ain't getting it here.

Here's the other thing. It isn't that we're relying on rose coloured memories of something we liked in the past. Today we can instantly access old films and TV shows. I've seen a ton of science fiction and sci-fi since I started watching TOS in 1970. Sadly not that much of it still holds up.

Sometimes the value and strength of a work appreciates with age. And so it is with TOS. I'm more critical (in some respects) than when I was younger. And I'm impressed when something older still manages to hold me.

There's nothing new (especially these days) in reinterpreting old work. But it's nice when (and if) then can bring something new to the old magic.

Guess I'm still waiting.

First of all, you're still judging it by a few minutes of footage. There is no reason an ACTION movie can't be good, hell STII was an action movie to a great extent. Maybe you could consider ST(2009) to be a fairly smart action movie and see it on that level. I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone, I know you are pre-disposed to be close-minded, but its something to consider. ST really isn't losing anything by losing fans like this.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

First of all, you're still judging it by a few minutes of footage. There is no reason an ACTION movie can't be good, hell STII was an action movie to a great extent. Maybe you could consider ST(2009) to be a fairly smart action movie and see it on that level. I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone, I know you are pre-disposed to be close-minded, but its something to consider. ST really isn't losing anything by losing fans like this.

RAMA

HOW MANY GODDAMNED TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID? YOU BASE YOUR INTEREST IN A FILM BASED ON THE FUCKING ADVANCE MATERIEL AND INFORMATION RELEASED. WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU GET? IT'S NOT CLOSED MINDED. IT'S A FAIR JUDGMENT CALL.

Plus, I've never been intersted in seeing the Starfleet Acadamey idea which this partly is. They also lifted plotlines from FC and NEM and rehashed them into this.

TOS clearly showed the characters were of different ages and DID NOT all start out together. Kirk only met Pike ONCE before when he took command. But true to today's way of doing things in current Trek everybody knows everybody else and linked from the beginning.

And to cap it off they BUTCHER the beautifully designed Enterprise. Updating and tweaking I could accept to an extent, but not butchering into something that now looks like shit.

This doesn't look like a Bourne or Dark Knight or Casino Royale style action movie. It looks like a fucked up Paul Verhoven Starship Troopers style action movie, which itself was another case of corrupting good source materiel.

You want to see a 90210, dumbed down hyper style flick for the hip-hop generation. Fine. Enjoy your orgasm.

The entire way this film is presented turns me off, in addition to changes I don't care for.

Last week it was "Courtmartial." Yesterday it was "The City On The Edge Of Forever." I haven't seen anything presented about this flick that evokes or resonates with that kind of storytelling. Hell, it doesn't even resonate with "Spock's Brain" which in the least had a genuine idea to it. I've the fucking spoilers from those who saw it when it screened in Australia and I read nothing of encouragement.

The way Trek's been done for easily the past twenty years doesn't appeal to me. It's just dumbed down too much to play to the lowest denominators.

 

[Forbin]

Wto words: De caf.

I'm with ya, Warped. I'll see it for free (got theater passes from work). I may even enjoy the film. But I'll never like what they did to the look of it all.

 

[USS Mariner]

Why I'm not paying? Here's three reasons:

• Geoffrey Mandel was fired for making a comparison picture of the original and the new ship for himself and putting it on his office wall.
  
• Transformers was written by Orci Kurtzman, and it came of as even more retarted than the cartoon.
  
• All of Abrams' work to date comes off as pompous, self-important clusterfucks, and he manages to grab decent actors and punish them with consistently sub-par material.

Abrams, the studio management, and the writing staff won't get near an ounce of my money. However, out of respect for the actors and production staff, I will watch it. Maybe it'll make me interested in their other works later on.

Arrest me.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think a CGI feature film of TOS can work very well in the not so distant future. Just about most of the images in the new Star Wars movies were CGI and soon enough they will be able to reproduce actors as they looked when they were young. Look at wht they did in the Lord Of the Rings Trilogy with the character of Gollum. There is enough stock footage and voice recordings of TOS to create a computer generated feature film in the future and I can't wait for that day to come! Science fiction meets cutting edge CGI, I am sure the use of this future technology would be something Gene Roddenberry would have approved.

yes...yes...YES..........YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oops another orgasm at work....I need to get a new chair at this point.

A Clone Wars-style TOS CGI film would be pretty damn sweet, even if you couldn't get any of the classic actors to reprise their roles. Just get voice-over artists who sound close enough to the original actors and that'd be good enough for most of us.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why I'm not paying? Here's three reasons:

• Geoffrey Mandel was fired for making a comparison picture of the original and the new ship for himself and putting it on his office wall.

Really?

BFD. Employment at will.

 

[Gary7]

Why I'm not paying? Here's three reasons:

• Geoffrey Mandel was fired for making a comparison picture of the original and the new ship for himself and putting it on his office wall.

Really?

BFD. Employment at will.

Nobody would get fired for something like that. There must have been something else and perhaps there was a "complaint" from someone about the photo montage about the same time... thus someone said 'It was because he had that comparison picture of the old and new Enterprise.'


ANYWAY...

Nimoy is on the record for being VERY bullish on the movie. Now of course, he's in it... he couldn't possibly bash it publicly without risk of libel. He could, however, be cryptic and brief with comments, explaining it as "not giving anything away" if he personally wasn't all that crazy about it (just "collect the pay check and run"). But no, he openly stated how moved he was by how things went, being visibly emotionally touched (during an interview).

Based on the scenes, seeing it in the big theater is going to be quite an experience. Even if it bastardizes the original Star Trek universe, it's going to be a fun ride. Worthy of a sequel? That remains to be seen.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Expecting a lo of "intelligence" from a two-hour, big-budget extravaganza popcorn movie is unfair. Trek should be smart, but that's better conveyed in the long format that TV allows. Movies are expected to spend a great deal of effort on action and SFX, while on TV the priorities are different.

Ideally, we'll have movies every couple years for the wizz-bang and TV every week for part of the year, for the relationships, character development, and smarts.