What You Leave Behind Question
- Thread starter Photon
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It's hard to say. There must have been at least one other founder in the Alpha Quadrant, maybe they would have taken over directing the Jem Hadar.
The Jem Hadar suicides in "The Ship" were perhaps just for those Jem Hadar in the founder's personal security detail. All the Jem Hadar in the quadrant don't have to die just because one founder died.
The Jem Hadar suicides in "The Ship" were perhaps just for those Jem Hadar in the founder's personal security detail. All the Jem Hadar in the quadrant don't have to die just because one founder died.
So the question is, did those Jem'Hadar 'allow' a Founder to die? Could they have prevented it from happening in the first place, even if they had subjugated the entire Alpha Quadrant? I think not.
The real issue is what would have happened to all the Founders, had Odo not shared the cure. They would have died. And the Vorta would have lost control of the Jem'Hadar, who would have likely slaughtered millions before dying of Ketrucel white withdrawl. But with the brain destroyed and the fists gone, the Vorta (the voice) would not have been able to maintain control. So, we would likely have a large scale Dominion revolt.
And the Dominion would have actually collapsed.
I feel 'millions' might be a significant understatement. They probably had the capability to glass entire planets in minutes. And they might have done so with as many planets as they could before Ketracel White shortage incapacitated them.
I think it likely the Dominion fleet surrounding Cardassia would've thrown everything they had at the combined allied fleet. All weapons fire-at-will, kamikaze runs into capital ships. They'd throw themselves at death and take down as much of the combined Federation fleet as possible. As the Female Founder said, their victory would taste as bitter as defeat.
I don't think The Vorta would want to go down that path, but I suspect they would find themselves holding no sway over The Jem Hadar at that juncture.
The Breen? If they knew the jig was up, would they turncoat as well, hoping it might buy some favor after The Federation prevailed? We know little of their culture. If it were The Romulans in league with The Dominion, you'd expect them to turn on them the moment the calculus favored it.
I think that they would have kept on fighting to the end.
Therefore it was good that they spared her life. However, I really wish that she had been killed off. She was downright disgusting. But as such a good villain.
But I think that she and the Dominion got away too easy.
She should have been executed for her war crimes (if she wasn't, who knows).
And as it was, the Dominion continued to rule the gamma Quadrant and all the planets they had conquesed there including that poor planet where they had the plague when Bashir and Jadzia Dax were stranded there.
And who says that Odo was successful in making The Founders become better beings when he cured them? isn't it possible that they changed him instead and they all continued to be evil and terrorize the population in the Gamma Quadrant?
The best would have been if The Dominion had collapsed. The Founders could have been allowed to live on their planet but not allowed to leave it and warning buoys would have surrounded the planet, warning other ships from landing there.
Therefore it was good that they spared her life. However, I really wish that she had been killed off. She was downright disgusting. But as such a good villain.
But I think that she and the Dominion got away too easy.
She should have been executed for her war crimes (if she wasn't, who knows).
And as it was, the Dominion continued to rule the gamma Quadrant and all the planets they had conquesed there including that poor planet where they had the plague when Bashir and Jadzia Dax were stranded there.
And who says that Odo was successful in making The Founders become better beings when he cured them? isn't it possible that they changed him instead and they all continued to be evil and terrorize the population in the Gamma Quadrant?
The best would have been if The Dominion had collapsed. The Founders could have been allowed to live on their planet but not allowed to leave it and warning buoys would have surrounded the planet, warning other ships from landing there.
Executing the Female Changeling might have reignited the war and had them fighting to the last Jem Hadar. After WW II, some senior officials were executed for war crimes, but not Emperor Hirohito. (Hitler of course spared us the trouble.)
To all appearances the cure was successful. Odo seemed to be his old self as he said goodbye to Kira. What if the entire series is a Talosian illusion, or Benny's dream?
To all appearances the cure was successful. Odo seemed to be his old self as he said goodbye to Kira. What if the entire series is a Talosian illusion, or Benny's dream?
It could be argued that the genetic virus used by Section 31 was genocide... or that it was an attempt to destroy the "brain" of the Dominion, and cause that collapse.
Oh, absolutely. It would be very hard to defend Section 31 against a genocide charge. But the victors in a war rarely get charged with war crimes.
Considering that the Dominion was the sort of organization that introduced itself via mass murder, punished disobedience with planetwide extermination, and was guilty of innumerable war crimes in between... it could be argued that eliminating the Founders was a justifiable response.
It was the execution of several Nazi and japanese war criminals that I was thinking of when it comes to The Female Changeling. She was worse than the Nazis, Soviets and Japanese together.
Maybe they could have executed her after the treaty was signed.
As for Hirohito, he wasn't the driving force in the same way as The female Changling was. He was more like a symbol than the real leader.
He was guiilty too but most of the blame lies on Tojo and his generals and admirals.
Odo was his own self when he said goodbye to Kira. But did he remain his old self after diving in that pool of changelings on the planet. he obviously cured them but how do we know that they didn't turn him into something similar to The Female Changeling and that The Dominion would start preparing for a new war while also continuing to terrorize all planets under their control.
I do agree with the majority of what you say here but disagree on execution for the war crimes - the UFP shouldn't have the death penalty (think the presence of it in TOS was simply an element of when it was produced - far fewer supported it by the time of TNG and certainly now which seems to be reflected by the fact it isn't mentioned again) by that point in my opinion.
I'm also of the view that the taking of a life as punishment does not correct for having the person having taken a life themselves - although I do not judge anyone for feeling otherwise as I don't know how I'd feel were it someone close to me who was killed - so would prefer something other than that (most likely indefinite incarceration - how can you give a life sentence to a being who would likely outlive generations of people after the fact?).
This is what is meant to make Seven's summary execution of Bejayzal so hard hitting (in my opinion) is that what this person has done to a beloved character is so severe that it has driven them to such lengths - although I caveat that with not knowing what rules the Fenris Rangers operate under and so Seven might have had the right to do so in that particular instance
There are similar scenes with other characters who have likewise been pushed too far...
Remember that Data would have executed that "collector" in "The Most Toys", had it not been for that convenient transporter beam.
Janeway very nearly crushed Voyager, and presumably killed 25 or so "scientists" in "Scientific Method".
And Picard kind of went nuts with the Tommy gun in "First Contact".
Funny you mention First Contact - at the risk of "is Starfleet the military?" kicking off would you not class him as a member of a recognised armed forces division under attack by an established enemy combatant who they are effectively at war with and therefore his actions fall under the normal rules of combat?
His actions were legitimate regardless... but he kinda went nuts in the process. Once he had pummeled both Borg with 50 .45 rounds, he began trying to smash them up further with the rifle butt. And since a Thompson M1928 weighs almost 20 pounds, he would have done some damage.
Oh yeah - no arguing there, just feel the military circumstance adds credence but opinions will vary particularly as the UK doesn't have the same "defence of property" laws the US does (apologies if I am making some incorrect assumptions btw - just perception from the outside but if I am wrong I meant no offence)
Wonder though if the extent he goes to might class as brutalisation though?
Anyway - taking this well off topic so apologies
Borg drones don't count as people, unless they've been altered to have individuality. They see themselves as mere extensions of the Collective, like how skin cells are extensions of you or me. Killing a drone is like clipping a toenail.
The only individual in the Borg is the Queen, everyone else is just an extension of her. So, killing the Queen is murder but killing drones isn't.
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