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What you did or didn't like about GEN...

Liked: The opening sequence on the 1701-B

Dislike: That they didn't rewrite the dialogue for Chekov and Scotty
-The Nexus is ill defined
-Everything else.
 
The part of Generations that I dislike was that it seemed like a check list movie. It was lacking heart a grand adventure. Here is what I mean by a check list.

1.Kirk meets Picard check
2.Kilingons check
3.Insane Bad guy check
4.Whoopi check
5.The destruction of Big D check
6.Data doing or saying something funny check

All or none of these things are good or bad but it seemed like it was a movie of committee and that made it sad because back when it was made every Trek fan was waiting for this film to come out.
 
There was no checklist. Really, honestly, truly.

There was no requirement from the studio to kill Kirk. There was no requirement from the studio that the film even include Kirk. There was no requirement from the studio that the ship be destroyed.

Want proof? Just read the afterword to the novelization of the film. Read about Maurice Hurley's script, which was as far away from the checklist posted above as you can get. Even Moore and Braga's first idea for their script, which ultimately became Generations, was pretty far afield from that checklist.

There was no laundry list.
 
I liked nearly all of Gen.

I thought it was much better written than the next three, and possibly better than ST11.

You have to have seen 'Family' to appreciate the poignancy of Picard crying.

I thought the bits with Kirk in were good and it was clever and unexpected to kill him twice. Some bits were boring, the wait on the planet for the nexus and the bit at the begining aboard the other ship.

If ST12 could have the soul and spirit and skill of Gen, it would be great. Some craft amongst the people's heads exploding and car crashes would be nice.
 
Berman had a laundry list. It probably took a while to form, but ultimately, he had a checklist of things he wanted to happen, like Kirk dying (so that they could put an end to any more stories involving the original cast, completely overlooking the fact that the cast "signing off" at the end of TUC did the same thing, on a much more positive note), and that the Enterprise-D had to be destroyed (because the effects guys were bored with her and wanted to work up a new ship).
 
I liked nearly all of Gen.

I thought it was much better written than the next three, and possibly better than ST11.

You have to have seen 'Family' to appreciate the poignancy of Picard crying.

I thought the bits with Kirk in were good and it was clever and unexpected to kill him twice. Some bits were boring, the wait on the planet for the nexus and the bit at the begining aboard the other ship.

If ST12 could have the soul and spirit and skill of Gen, it would be great. Some craft amongst the people's heads exploding and car crashes would be nice.

My God, I hope Star Trek XII is nothing like Gen. :eek:
 
I actually really like Generations and I will never understand all the hate it gets. The cinematography (especially with the Ent-D) is terriffic, the score is great, and while the plot isn't TNG at its absolute highest, it's not a BAD story and it's executed extremely well. I think it managed to capture the spirit of the TV show while still "feeling" big, even though it was a small-scale story ultimately.

I hear a lot of complaints about Kirk's death, but I think there's a poetic beauty to it. He dies saving a people that would never know him because he wants to do good and make a difference. HOW JAMES T. KIRK IS THAT?! Say whatever you want, but I thought it was great. Are there better ways to off him than dropping a bridge on him? I'd say so. But I like that he had a 'small' death that wasn't overdone.

The acting is terrific all-around, too. The regulars put up their usual good performances, and I think McDowell executes perfectly the material he's given.

I also don't get why so many people are so vehement about the Enterprise-D's destruction. I mean, I love the Galaxy-class design too, but it's not like it was the only one, and you can still watch the episodes of the TV show. I guess it has something to do with the mentality of the ship being a "character", but I never felt that way. I mean, I like it, and I think it's cool, but it's just a ship. And frankly, I think the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E is a better design overall anyway, so I never felt particularly sad over it. Well, I didn't think it was a big deal in Star Trek III either other than the "well now they're stuck" part of it.

I think it's every bit on par with TUC (another very good film) and just one notch below FC. It does have some things that bug me, but they're all pretty small compared to how well-realized the rest of it is to me.
 
I don't mind Kirk's death, though the Nexus seems a bit too much like a plot device.

The Enterprise destruction was entertaining in and of itself, but I really think the -means- of its destruction (beaten by an old BoP) was severely lacking. If the ships had been more evenly matched, or the combat had been a bit more dynamic than "BoP fires on ENT a lot" that would have helped.

As far as ship destructions go, I think the ENT in TSFS wins for emotional weight every time. The crew watching the ship go down in flames is iconic to me (like the music here too), and you'd be hard-pressed to beat (my apologies if I get it wrong)-

Kirk - My god Bones, what have I done?
Bones - What you had to do. What you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live.

They did everything they could to save Spock, and for once our kick-ass crew paid a real price.

The aftermath of the D's destruction doesn't come close to touching that, and it probably doesn't help that in TSFS we really had no idea what the crew's fates would be (given they'd just pissed off Starfleet), whereas in GEN the stakes were a lot lower.
 
The reason many people, such as myself, are annoyed by the Enterprise-D's destruction is at least to me that it was unnecessary. The reason the original Enterprise was 'refit' (replaced with a new design) was to catch up with advances in special effects in the fifteen years since the model was built and give it the whole look an update. The Enterprise-D model, however, was not only built to a cinema-quality standard but it was only seven years old, making it seem like the desire to replace it with a new ship was simply that - desire to replace it with a new ship.

I guess that's why I have more problem with that than with Kirk's death. I too see a type of poetic beauty to the way he died, but I'm still not convinced it was totally necessary.
 
The reason many people, such as myself, are annoyed by the Enterprise-D's destruction is at least to me that it was unnecessary. The reason the original Enterprise was 'refit' (replaced with a new design) was to catch up with advances in special effects in the fifteen years since the model was built and give it the whole look an update. The Enterprise-D model, however, was not only built to a cinema-quality standard but it was only seven years old, making it seem like the desire to replace it with a new ship was simply that - desire to replace it with a new ship.

I guess that's why I have more problem with that than with Kirk's death. I too see a type of poetic beauty to the way he died, but I'm still not convinced it was totally necessary.


Very true, it was supose to be the flag ship of the Federation back when The Next Generation first aired. I'm guessing flag ships are supose to be big and technologicly advance from other Federation starships. Enterprise E, I'm guessing dwarfs the Galaxy class ships in size, firepower, and technology.
 
The reason many people, such as myself, are annoyed by the Enterprise-D's destruction is at least to me that it was unnecessary. The reason the original Enterprise was 'refit' (replaced with a new design) was to catch up with advances in special effects in the fifteen years since the model was built and give it the whole look an update. The Enterprise-D model, however, was not only built to a cinema-quality standard but it was only seven years old, making it seem like the desire to replace it with a new ship was simply that - desire to replace it with a new ship.

I guess that's why I have more problem with that than with Kirk's death. I too see a type of poetic beauty to the way he died, but I'm still not convinced it was totally necessary.

Well, that's a valid point. From all accounts I've heard, you're right; they simply did want to just use a new ship. My perspective would probably be different if I didn't LOVE the Sovereign, but...well, I do. ;)

As far as Kirk, I think the TOS crew could've been left well enough alone with TUC. But since I knew going into GEN that they WERE going to use Kirk, I think they did as well as they could and that it turned out pretty well.



Very true, it was supose to be the flag ship of the Federation back when The Next Generation first aired. I'm guessing flag ships are supose to be big and technologicly advance from other Federation starships. Enterprise E, I'm guessing dwarfs the Galaxy class ships in size, firepower, and technology.

It has fewer decks, but is longer. Otherwise, that's the impression I've always gotten; that it was the best warship Starfleet had that when the need arose for one.
 
There was no checklist. Really, honestly, truly.

There was no requirement from the studio to kill Kirk. There was no requirement from the studio that the film even include Kirk. There was no requirement from the studio that the ship be destroyed.

Want proof? Just read the afterword to the novelization of the film. Read about Maurice Hurley's script, which was as far away from the checklist posted above as you can get. Even Moore and Braga's first idea for their script, which ultimately became Generations, was pretty far afield from that checklist.

There was no laundry list.

What does the novelization afterword have to do with anything? Also, while Hurley's script was far away from "the checklist" as was Moore & Braga's first ideas, none of it was used. Why do you think that was?

Nope. There was a checklist.

Want proof that isn't completely circumstantial? Go watch the Generations commentary by Braga and Moore where they confirm that the suits had a list of things they wanted to see happen in the movie. This included the death of Kirk and the destruction of the Enterprise-D. They also reiterate this in the First Contact commentary.
 
I liked nearly all of Gen.

I thought it was much better written than the next three, and possibly better than ST11.

You have to have seen 'Family' to appreciate the poignancy of Picard crying.

I thought the bits with Kirk in were good and it was clever and unexpected to kill him twice. Some bits were boring, the wait on the planet for the nexus and the bit at the begining aboard the other ship.

If ST12 could have the soul and spirit and skill of Gen, it would be great. Some craft amongst the people's heads exploding and car crashes would be nice.

My God, I hope Star Trek XII is nothing like Gen. :eek:

:lol::techman:
 
I actually really like Generations and think its the best of the TNG films.
I thought the guy that did the cinematography was amazing. Its was great to see the D on the big screen and the crash sequence was really cool even though it was painful to see the D done with.
Kirk situation was poorly mishandled, infact tha whole Picard meeting Kirk thing could have been handled much better and with much more pazazz. But i don't dwell on it.
I think i mostly like the action bits. Didn't like seeing Picard cry so oddly.
the only thing about Datas chip that i like is when "ohhh shit" that made me laugh.
 
And I'll tell you WTF else I hated about Gen.

Yeah, okay, so there's this crazy nexus thing that travels through space and when people go inside, they magically live out there wildest dreams. So Picard gets stuck in this thing, lives out his dream, remembers he has to go back and beat Soren and the best solution he can come up with is to retrieve Kirk to help him in a fist fight with the evil foe.

Come on, people. It's stupid. How does this shit end up in a multimillion dollar movie??
 
How they could've fixed the whole thing in the reshoot.

The movie is unchanged up until the point where Kirk and Picard leave the Nexus and confront Soran. At which point, they ultimately fail to stop the mad El-Aurian, the missile still goes off and they wind up right back in the Nexus.

“Well,” Kirk remarked, “that didn’t work.”

“We’re picking the wrong time period,” Picard surmised, “but I can’t just throw him in the brig without some justification.”

“Wait a minute,” Kirk said, “didn’t you say he was on the Enterprise-B?”

“Yes, when it encountered the Nexus, and you were…”

Kirk ignored the last bit, “Captain, go back to whatever point you want before this mess started. I’ve got an idea that just might fix everything.”

Picard paused, then said, “I hope you know what you’re doing.”

“So do I.”

The two men shook hands. “Good luck, Captain,” Picard said.

“You, too, Captain.”

The screen goes white, as we leave the Nexus for…

Sickbay on the Enterprise-B. A frantic and bloodied Soran struggled with Chekov. “No! Don’t you see, I’ve got to get back!”

A hand clamped down on Soran’s shoulder and spun him around. He found himself staring into the intense eyes of Captain Kirk.

“Come with me,” Kirk said.

“Keptin?”

“Not now, Chekov,” as Kirk hurried the confused Soran out of the crowded sickbay.

The Enterprise-B is rocked violently by another discharge from the Nexus, as Kirk and Soran reach the main deflector control room.

“You understand what you have to do?” Kirk asked.

“Yes, Captain,” Soran said, still slightly frantic, but with a fresh determination. “Thank you.”

“Don’t mention it, now GO!”

Kirk watched from the doorway as Soran quickly made the adjustments to the defelctor.

“Cap’n,” Scotty said over the intercom, “we need that deflector pulse in one minute or we’re all dead!”

“Now you know how it feels,” Kirk said under his breath, then louder, “Almost ready, stand by!”

Soran finished the adjustments, then stepped back, and turned to face the forward bulkhead, his arms outstretched in anticipation.

“NOW, SCOTTY!” Kirk yelled as he sprinted down the corridor.

The graviton pulse lanced out from the Enterprise-B’s deflector dish, breaking the hold of the Nexus on the ship. As the ship pulls away, one last tendril reached out and took a ragged bite out of the secondary hull.

Scotty came lumbering around the corner to see Kirk looking out into gash in the hull, just beyond the environmental force field that stood between them and the hard vacuum of open space.

“Are ye all right, Cap’n?”

“I’m fine, Scotty.”

Scotty looked out into the void. “Was there anyone in there?”

“Yeah, one of the El-Aurians.”

“Poor soul.”

“He’ll be fine.”

Scott looked at his captain like he’d just grown a second head.

“I’ll explain later.”

Harriman and Chekov came running down the corridor.

“Captain Harriman,” Kirk said, “What do you say we get this ship back to Earth and these refugees some proper medical care? I’ve got a few choice words for the headquarters genius who decided to send this ship out with only half her systems installed…”

Flash forward seventy-eight years, the bridge of the Enterprise-D.

“Message coming in for you, Captain,” Worf reported. “Your brother, thanking you for your warning about the malfunctioning heating unit.”

“Thank you, Mr. Worf,” Picard said, suppressing a smile.

Counselor Troi gave him a look, sensing his emotional uptick. “Something you’d like to talk about, Captain?”

“Later, Counselor.”

“We should start getting ready,” Riker said, “Mr. Worf’s promotion ceremony is in just a couple hours.”

Picard heard the Klingon growl.

“Number One, perhaps we should rethink the scenario for Mr. Worf’s promotion. After all, it is his party.”

Worf let out a sigh of relief. “I will have an alternative prepared within the hour.”

“No hurry, Mr. Worf, and no need for theatrics if you don’t want them. If you want to go with a simple ceremony in Ten Forward, that will quite all right.”

“Thank you, Captain. I will make arrangements with Guinan.”

“Mr. Data, how long until we reach the Armagosa Array?”

“ETA two hours, fifteen minutes at our current speed.”

“Very good. You have the conn, Number One. I’ll be in my quarters, following up on that message from my brother.”

The Enterprise-D sails off, movie ends, everybody’s happy.
 
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