What would the effects of ketracel white...

[Vandervecken]

...be on humans? On Klingons? Romulans/Vulcans, Ferengi, Cardassians, etc? That never came up in the series that I can remember.

Of course t's most likely to be a deadly poison for any race other than the Jem'Hadar (and the Vorta, who are immune to just about any poison). But you never know. Might make some interesting stories. I can see some smart, Ferengi entrepreneur (redundancy?) doing some experimentation and then becoming a drug kingpin.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I don't know. They call it a drug but it's more comparable to a vitamin boost. I mean if you don't get enough vitamin, you'll get all manners of sicknesses and then eventually die. That's pretty much what the Jhemadar experiences when they are deprived of Ketracel white.

I think it would either have no effect on our metabolism whatsoever or being sickening, possibly deadly. Like when someone drinks bleach or something like that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In Insurrection, Riker refers to ketracel-white as a narcotic. Which suggests that it is commonly used as a drug outside of the Dominion. IIRC, the Son'a were even involved in trafficking it.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In Insurrection, Riker refers to ketracel-white as a narcotic. Which suggests that it is commonly used as a drug outside of the Dominion. IIRC, the Son'a were even involved in trafficking it.

That's flimsy evidence to come to such conclusions. It's also possible that Riker used that term a bit abusively, that wouldn't be the first time, and that he meant a substance that was illegal to produce because it aided the enemy in their war effort. Something, that is understandable. Sisko risked his life and that of his crew to blow up a Ketracel white distribution facility.

I am not saying you're necessary wrong but you need additional proof for what you're saying.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I would guess it's either toxic or has no effect on other races.

Heroin doesn't have the effect it has on humans because of some innate properties of heroin. It has that effect on humans because it can bond to existing substrates humans have for another purpose. Other species lack the substrates necessary to bond with ketracel-white.

 

[T'Girl]

In Insurrection, Riker refers to ketracel-white as a narcotic. Which suggests that it is commonly used as a drug outside of the Dominion.

That was my take on Riker's use of the term narcotic.

The Sona might have marketed "The White" all over the Federation and elsewhere too, your customers have to keep coming to you because (iirc) the white can't be replicated.

The effects on Humans would be no longer needing to sleep, no need to eat, increased energy. It might also increase agression.

The Jem'Hadar had a short life span, the white could kill you after a couple of decades.

 

[Tosk]

The effects on Humans would be no longer needing to sleep, no need to eat, increased energy. It might also increase agression.

That seems like a stretch to me. We don't know if those are a by-product of the White or even if Jen'Hadar really don't require sleep or food. For all we know, Virak'kara was lying or exaggerating when he claimed that. Goran'Agar claims in passing that he and his men do eat.) The Jem'Hadar were created to be missing an enzyme that White contains, so it would depend greatly on if that is an enzyme we already create naturally.

Also, doesn't narcotic just mean that a drug is prohibited? By itself, the classification doesn't mean anything in regards to if the White would work on any other species.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, doesn't narcotic just mean that a drug is prohibited?

No. There are legal narcotics. I believe codeine and morphine qualify as such.

In Insurrection, Riker refers to ketracel-white as a narcotic. Which suggests that it is commonly used as a drug outside of the Dominion. IIRC, the Son'a were even involved in trafficking it.

That's flimsy evidence to come to such conclusions. It's also possible that Riker used that term a bit abusively, that wouldn't be the first time, and that he meant a substance that was illegal to produce because it aided the enemy in their war effort. Something, that is understandable. Sisko risked his life and that of his crew to blow up a Ketracel white distribution facility.

I am not saying you're necessary wrong but you need additional proof for what you're saying.

There would be no reason for the Son'a to traffic in ketracel-white if it only affected Jem'Hadar - the Dominion produces enough of it for that purpose. The fact that the Son'a are involved suggests that the white does indeed affect other races.

Also, IIRC, Riker is actually reading from the computer screen when he mentions this. He only says it's a narcotic because the computer lists it as such.

In any case, Riker is not the kind of person to use words "abusively" if there is no need to. He's just having a private conversation with Deanna, after all. There's no reason for him to speak in hyperbole. If he says it's a narcotic, we can be reasonably assured that it is.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's ridiculous to suggest that a drug that has an effect on one race that was genetically modified to be dependent on it would have the same effect on every race. Drugs require an individual's biology to have specific substrates designed to interact with specific molecules.

It's ridiculous to think that humans and vulcans get narcotic effects from the same drugs, much less humans and a race genetically modified to use it.

I forgot that it was mentioned in Insurrection, but given two contradictory sources you go with the better written one. That's not Insurrection.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

It's ridiculous to suggest that a drug that has an effect on one race that was genetically modified to be dependent on it would have the same effect on every race. Drugs require an individual's biology to have specific substrates designed to interact with specific molecules.

It's ridiculous to think that humans and vulcans get narcotic effects from the same drugs, much less humans and a race genetically modified to use it.

I forgot that it was mentioned in Insurrection, but given two contradictory sources you go with the better written one. That's not Insurrection.

These is a lot in Insurrection that it would be less embarrassing to simply forget than to try to explain.

 

[T'Girl]

It's ridiculous to suggest that a drug that has an effect on one race that was genetically modified to be dependent on it would have the same effect on every race.

MCCOY: I've never worked on anyone like him or anything like him.

SPOCK: Yet you are pumping him full of your noxious potions as if he were a human.

MCCOY: When in doubt, the book prevails, Mister Spock. I've run tests. Blood is blood, even when it's green like yours.

These is a lot in Insurrection that it would be less embarrassing to simply forget than to try to explain.

While there might be a very few things, the majority of Insurrection is worthy of being remembered. It one of the more interesting movies.

Also, doesn't narcotic just mean that a drug is prohibited?

No. There are legal narcotics. I believe codeine and morphine qualify as such.

The medical term narcotic refers to a psychoactive compound.

I am not saying you're necessary wrong but you need additional proof for what you're saying.

There's also that TPTB wanted to depict the Sona as "the bad guys." Having them be drug dealers would be a big step in that direction.

 

[Tosk]

No. There are legal narcotics. I believe codeine and morphine qualify as such.

The medical term narcotic refers to a psychoactive compound.

Thank you both. Knowledge updated!

I always took the INS line to mean that the Son'a manufactured White for the Dominion. I guess I figured The Dominion had certain powers do stuff for them the same way we saw them using Cardassian and Breen tech and resources for their own needs later in the series. Why the Federation would have anything to do with them if that were the case, I have no idea. But then, as Troi herself says, why were they dealing with them anyway?


EDIT: Ah, looking at wiki now I see all three of us were partially correct. Sort of.

The term narcotic originally referred medically to any psychoactive compound with any sleep-inducing properties. [...] The term is, today, imprecisely defined and typically has negative connotations. When used in a legal context in the U.S., a narcotic drug is simply one that is totally prohibited, or one that is used in violation of strict governmental regulation, such as codeine or morphine.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

No. There are legal narcotics. I believe codeine and morphine qualify as such.

The medical term narcotic refers to a psychoactive compound.

Thank you both. Knowledge updated!

I always took the INS line to mean that the Son'a manufactured White for the Dominion. I guess I figured The Dominion had certain powers do stuff for them the same way we saw them using Cardassian and Breen tech and resources for their own needs later in the series. Why the Federation would have anything to do with them if that were the case, I have no idea. But then, as Troi herself says, why were they dealing with them anyway?


EDIT: Ah, looking at wiki now I see all three of us were partially correct. Sort of.

The term narcotic originally referred medically to any psychoactive compound with any sleep-inducing properties. [...] The term is, today, imprecisely defined and typically has negative connotations. When used in a legal context in the U.S., a narcotic drug is simply one that is totally prohibited, or one that is used in violation of strict governmental regulation, such as codeine or morphine.

I am sorry but according to your wiki quote, I am the one closer to the truth. The Son'a could still be manufacturing that substance to sell it to the Dominion. After all the Dominion has dealings with the Orion syndicate then why not with the Son'a?

Ketracel White is forbidden by the Federation because it aids the Dominion in their war effort. I don't think they need other reasons.

 

[Tosk]

I am sorry but according to your wiki quote, I am the one closer to the truth.

I was only talking about the definition, not how it applied to INS.

 

[trekshark]

I thought the Son'a were manufacturing white, not trafficking it

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I thought the Son'a were manufacturing white, not trafficking it

IMO, they are just selling it to the founders.

 

[Horizons96]

There would be no reason for the Son'a to traffic in ketracel-white if it only affected Jem'Hadar - the Dominion produces enough of it for that purpose. The fact that the Son'a are involved suggests that the white does indeed affect other races.

I would assume that if the Son'a are (involved with) trafficking or producing Ketracel White for the Dominion it would be to establish supply lines of the substance to forward operating units/outposts of the Dominion in the alpha and beta quadrants, without arousing interest from Federation/Allied forces that a Dominion fleet or ship would.

It's easy to see how, while it is advantageous for the Founders to use an addictive drug to ensure obedience and peak performance for its troops, it can become a huge problem should this drug not reach them. Ensuring supply/trade routes and partners with those such as the Son'a and Orion Syndicate would be imperative for keeping their forces supplied with KW.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

There would be no reason for the Son'a to traffic in ketracel-white if it only affected Jem'Hadar - the Dominion produces enough of it for that purpose. The fact that the Son'a are involved suggests that the white does indeed affect other races.

I would assume that if the Son'a are (involved with) trafficking or producing Ketracel White for the Dominion it would be to establish supply lines of the substance to forward operating units/outposts of the Dominion in the alpha and beta quadrants, without arousing interest from Federation/Allied forces that a Dominion fleet or ship would.

It's easy to see how, while it is advantageous for the Founders to use an addictive drug to ensure obedience and peak performance for its troops, it can become a huge problem should this drug not reach them. Ensuring supply/trade routes and partners with those such as the Son'a and Orion Syndicate would be imperative for keeping your forces supplied with KW.

That makes sense.

 

[Timo]

Going back to the source always helps.

"The Son'a are known to have produced vast quantities of the narcotic ketracel-white."

"The narcotic ketracel-white" might be

a) descriptive of what ketracel-white is (although this is the first time I hear of the misuse of the word "narcotic" to describe substances that cause no narcosis), or
b) a variant of ketracel-white, with narcotic properties rather than the usual ones.

If the latter, it might find Alpha markets. But nothing suggests the Son'a would have been selling it to anybody else but the Dominion. And the former explanation nicely jibes with exclusive wartime production.

An interesting question is how come the Son'a know how to make the stuff when even the mighty Federation has difficulty... Other parts of the movie make it plausible that the Son'a might actually be a Gamma Quadrant culture originally, with the Ba'ku the first settlement of a group of refugees, and the Alpha Son'a the second, spinoff culture. We have little idea of how long the trip of the original refugees from their doomed (?) home system took, but it could well have been the century'ish that it takes to sail from Gamma by conventional means.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Going back to the source always helps.

"The Son'a are known to have produced vast quantities of the narcotic ketracel-white."

"The narcotic ketracel-white" might be

a) descriptive of what ketracel-white is (although this is the first time I hear of the misuse of the word "narcotic" to describe substances that cause no narcosis), or
b) a variant of ketracel-white, with narcotic properties rather than the usual ones.

If the latter, it might find Alpha markets. But nothing suggests the Son'a would have been selling it to anybody else but the Dominion. And the former explanation nicely jibes with exclusive wartime production.

An interesting question is how come the Son'a know how to make the stuff when even the mighty Federation has difficulty... Other parts of the movie make it plausible that the Son'a might actually be a Gamma Quadrant culture originally, with the Ba'ku the first settlement of a group of refugees, and the Alpha Son'a the second, spinoff culture. We have little idea of how long the trip of the original refugees from their doomed (?) home system took, but it could well have been the century'ish that it takes to sail from Gamma by conventional means.

Timo Saloniemi

It's true that we never learn of the Ba'ku's actual point of origin. So it could be anywhere in the Galaxy. They seemed so advanced that maybe they even had access to transwarp technology.