What would Star Trek be like today if Phase II had happened?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by The Rock, May 24, 2019.

  1. The Rock

    The Rock Captain Captain

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    Star Trek: Phase II was supposed to be a sequel series to TOS. However, it was cancelled and they decided to make Star Trek: The Motion Picture instead. But, TMP used a lot of the things from Phase II.

    You think Star Trek would've been a lot different nowadays? Or would things have still ended up the same?

    Me, I think Phase II would've been successful and we wouldn't have any movies in the 70s or 80s. However, I think TNG still would've happened eventually.
     
  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If this version of the Paramount network were anything like UPN, I think they would've kept Phase II going as long as possible.
     
  3. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The longer time goes by and the idea of Phase II drifts away into the annals of time, unfulfilled and unseen, the better it gets in fans' eyes.
    In my opinion, if it had been anything like The Motion Picture, it would have been cancelled pretty soon after it's inception.
    TMP was majorly anticipated and it was great to see the cast return, on the big screen, but let's face it, it was overlong and tediously boring for the most part.
    Phase II may have been a similar underwhelming experience.
    Maybe I should have put that in the "Unpopular Opinions" thread.
     
  4. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    From the synopsis I've read and remakes I've seen, I don't think Phase II would have been more successful than Space 1999.

    No TOS movies, no Next Gen. Perhaps reboot movies and TV series akin to Lost in Space in '99 and this year.
     
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  5. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    Unless, of course, Harve Bennett, an experienced TV producer, is hired to take over as showrunner around Season 3, eventually spearheading a couple of low-budget features with the original crew. Maybe he goes on to develop a Starfleet Academy series later on.

    With Roddenberry out of the picture as a series producer, the TNG era as we know it doesn’t happen, but Abrams still gets to implement some kind of a reboot around 2009 and DSC is more or less preserved also.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  6. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Premium Member

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    Phase II most likely wouldn't have been great, just look at TMP which is basically a bloated Phase II pilot but unlike TMP there wouldn't have been time to rework the series for the next adventure, by the time the pilot aired several episodes would have been in the can, it wouldn't have been pretty.

    The lack of Spock probably would have hurt and the inclusion of Decker, Xon and Ilia would have bloated the cast and not sit well with Doohan, Takei, and Nichols. They have always overestimated their importance to the franchise and would have most likely made a big stink every time one of the "newbies" would have gotten a storyline or significant dialog. Koenig probably would have been fine, with Chekov moved to security he'd probably be part of many landing parties.
    The inevitable season 2 retool would have probably seen the removal of Roddenberry and also Uhura, Sulu and Scotty. The three new characters were created for this series with the potential to carry the show, the other three were leftovers from the old show and very much supporting.

    The retool wouldn't have helped that much looking at tv sci-fi of that era. It may have had a respectable 3 or 4 season run (because of brand recognition and Paramount not having much at the start) but I doubt it would have had spin-offs.

    So that's it, Phase II ends in the early 80s, no movie franchise, no Berman era expanding the franchise.

    The mid to late 90s could have seen a Star Trek reboot movie recasting the roles way earlier than in reality. Looking at all the other reboots of that era it most likely would have sucked (I'm thinking of The Avengers and Lost in Space).

    The 2000s may or may not have had a succesful writer driven reboot (think Ronald D. Moore and BSG) but for the most part Star Trek would be remembered as some old show from the 60s that kinda never went away.
     
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  7. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree phase ii would not have lasted long without Spock and a diminished role for Kirk. Probably no '80s TOS movies. Maybe no TNG in the late '80s. Could be a reboot in the '90s or some form of DS9 or VOY.
     
  8. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Impossible to tell.

    Though much like with The Wrath of Khan/The Search for Spock, I think if season one was successful Nimoy would've wanted back in for season two.

    Successful or not, there would've been more Trek down the road in the late-80's/early-90's.
     
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  9. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No Next Generation, as Phase II would've been Gene Roddenberry's perfected version of Trek I suspect.

    Much like Mission Impossible, you'd have the original series and its 80's sequel show. Then a big-screen remake by the 90's headed by an A-lister or two, spawning sequels.

    Another remake streaming about now, making it much like Lost in Space. A smaller Kirk & Spock centric franchise, without TNG proving you can do spin-offs based on other characters in other times and settings.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  10. gottacook

    gottacook Captain Captain

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    Even if the series had ended up resembling TMP, it would have had commercial interruptions, which wouldn't have hurt. Heck, TMP itself wouldn't have been such a slog with breaks inserted at the right places, such as just after the wormhole crisis begins, just after Ilia gets zapped, etc. (I did see the ABC broadcast of the "special longer version" in 1983, but I don't recall whether the breaks in fact helped, given the longer total running time and the fact that it was 36 freakin' years ago.)
     
  11. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Either way, I can't imagine Discovery existing in that altered timeline. So give me Phase II. :lol:
     
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  12. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    Why not? Think the V series (not the original miniseries) and then the reboot. Think Mission: Impossible (1988) and then the films. DSC uses only bits and pieces from the TNG era anyway.

    (Again, I’m not saying Harve Bennett couldn’t have moved from the “bionic” shows onto Star Trek and saved the series and the franchise as a TV producer, leaving much less room for Roddenberry to develop the TNG era.)
     
  13. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As others have said, I can sort of see it looking very similar, just with this (possibly stillborn) sequel series joining the original 79 episodes in syndication, or maybe not even being that successful. And with no movies, the brand doesn't recover and the spin-off Berman era Trek's don't happen. Somewhere in the 1990s there may have been an attempt at a reboot movie riding the wave of 60s nostalgia that swept Hollywood around then (Addams Family, Beverly Hillbillies, Lost in Space, Mission: Impossible, etc) but like those movies (M:I aside) it had more chance of either bombing, or spawning one or two sequels before crashing and burning. So, basically the Abrams movies a decade earlier.

    I don't doubt they would still have a franchise, but honestly, without The Next Generation acting as a tentpole, I can see it having become a niche, fondly-remembered-but-ultimately-small-fry TV show from a particular time in the national consciousness.
     
  14. Daddy Todd

    Daddy Todd Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Based on the scripts in development for Star Trek II (as it was called in preproduction) it would have been not-good, in that way so many ‘70’s sci-fi series were not-good. I’m talking worse than the Turd Season.

    Shatner would’ve been out by the middle of the first season (end at the latest.) Depending on how many viewers were brought in by the he pent-up demand for more Star Trek, it may have lasted several seasons, but the Paramount Network had a lot less coverage than UPN did a couple decades later, so vast areas of the US wouldn’t have been able to see it.

    No movies in the ‘80’s, maybe a TNG around 1990, but without Roddenberry, and without the tremendous asset of the movie standing sets, because they were actually the STII standing sets redressed. They would’ve been struck when STII cratered.

    So, a very different Star Trek ecosystem.
     
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  15. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    I can see it coming back, doing badly and then being relegated to the annals of history before an attempt at a reboot during around the same time as 2009 Trek did. The movies really did catapult the franchise to popularity, if TMP wasn't such a boring movie then I'd think they'd have done a lot better too.

    I feel like TNG came out during a sweet spot in TV for sci-fi too.
     
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  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Decent scifi series in the '70's would last a couple three years (six million dollar man for five years). I think phase two could have lasted that long. Mid 1978 through mid 1980-81. And there still could have been some version of TNG in the mid eighties, followed by the TNG movies.

    Now would there have been any TOS movies? Hard to say, certainly not in the original years, but perhaps later.

    1984 -ish.
     
  17. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What would Star Trek be like today if Phase II had happened?

    Non-existent, most likely.
     
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  18. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, Star Trek II will probably be a disaster. It's not Star Wars on TV, which is what many people want, nor is it classic Season 1-2 Star Trek. Nimoy is gone, Shatner might be disinterested (and getting too expensive).

    So, what I think will happen, after one or two seasons of very low ratings, is that Roddenberry has successfully devalued the brand. It will exist in books and soon gaming, but Paramount will, as they attempted to in the early '70s, offer Roddenberry a deal and sell him the Star Trek franchise.

    Now he owns the entire franchise fully. I don't know how that works with syndication rights, but he undoubtedly secured himself a paycheck because someone will want The Original Series airing throughout the 1980s. TOS was a bit of an odd syndication package, as it was less than 100 episodes, so it might actually get a boost from a one or two season Star Trek II if they're paired together.

    Movies are unlikely. Roddenberry is financially secured, and may delve into novel-writing when his attempts at more TV pilots or movies fail. Once he passes around the early '90s, his wife inherits Star Trek. Like in real life, she might be able to pitch a reboot of this beloved 1960s classic for the popular syndication market of the mid-to-late '90s, and we will get a reboot then, fully owned and produced by the Roddenberry Estate.

    *If* that is successful, that show might get a spin-off and maybe a movie or two in the 2000s. Hollywood has discovered that Nostalgia sells (again), and it's very likely that, like IRL, Trek will have some sort of reboot movie or continuation of the '60s show in the late 2000s or 2010s.
     
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  19. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the Phase II show would have lasted the 13 initial episodes...and probably completed its first season. Probably not much more as Paramount realizes how expensive it is to make.

    And there most certainly would have been no TOS movies and no TNG/Berman era franchise.

    Not a very good outcome.
     
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  20. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    There's just no way. Even if the show fails, those 13 additional episodes would've made the syndication package worth even more. Much like Paramount was going to add in TNG season one to the TOS syndication package had it failed.

    I also doubt it would've laid fallow for long, Hollywood loves to remake/reuse IP.