What would Roddenberry want in XI??

[Cheapjack]

I think that there are one or two here who havn't got a clue what I'm talking about which is sad, with such a show.

I think that there are a few who put it on a par with confessing you still sleep with your teddy-bear, though watching a show just for Flash Gordon space battles is on a par, to me.

 

[trekkerguy]

I think that there are one or two here who havn't got a clue what I'm talking about which is sad, with such a show.

I think that there are a few who put it on a par with confessing you still sleep with your teddy-bear, though watching a show just for Flash Gordon space battles is on a par, to me.

Star Trek, aside from in a couple episodes of DS9 and in Nemesis, has never
had all that flashy of space battles, so I doubt that's why we watch it.

 

[Cheapjack]

I've heard a lot of talk about weaponry and windows and lights and nacelles and timelines. All good stuff, of course, but you MIGHT be biting into a hollow chocolate bar, with this ST11. MIGHT.

 

[trekkerguy]

I've heard a lot of talk about weaponry and windows and lights and nacelles and timelines. All good stuff, of course, but you MIGHT be biting into a hollow chocolate bar, with this ST11. MIGHT.

Everything indicated by the writers, JJ Abrams(and his excellent work in the past),
the actors and all those that have actually seen parts of the movie, is that this is
far from just a shallow action adventure.

I love action adventure and hope very this much has those elements.
But based on everything so far, this seems to me to be a rich, special
chocolate Hershey's.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think that there are one or two here who havn't got a clue what I'm talking about which is sad, with such a show.

I see no evidence from their posts that there's anyone here who doesn't understand exactly what you're talking about.

Many of us just disagree.

I, for one, understand you precisely and think that you are mistaken and that your expressed views concerning art - narrative art, specifically - are narrow and miss the point of creation itself. The didactic function of fiction is the least of its virtues (unless you consider books like the Bible as fiction, which opens up a can of worms that I'm sure M'Sharak would not appreciate ).

 

[SalvorHardin]

I've heard a lot of talk about weaponry and windows and lights and nacelles and timelines. All good stuff, of course, but you MIGHT be biting into a hollow chocolate bar, with this ST11. MIGHT.

Well unfortunately or fortunately, we do not have enough information about what's inside that chocolate bar.

We know bits and pieces of information, we've got speculation about how it all fits together but nothing solid or complete enough to decide if there is any substance or important messages in this movie.
The people making it say there is substance and I tend to believe them but that will be seen in May 2009

So people end up talking about that little solid info they have.
Good stuff as you say, but also stuff hardly worth the obsession and over-analysis that goes on, thread after thread.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

BTW Wrath of Kahn's message was "Becareful what you do because in the future it may come back to bite you in the ass" Seeing it was one of the only times Kirk had to deal with the consequences of his actions and look what it cost him ultimately.. One of his Best Friends.

That wasn't the film's "message" - that's a thematic description of the experience of the main character, Kirk. See, when one tries to abstract and elevate the thematic material in a story into an "author's message" that's the kind of thing that so often happens: a good story is reduced to being the "carrier wave" for something that's generally simpleminded.

I mean, "be careful what you do because there will be consequences" - that is supposed to make that story worthwhile and explain why it's remained popular for thirty-some years? Come on. That's as insightful and inspiring a message as "be sure to carry an umbrella when it looks like rain."

actually it was a joke....

D'oh!

There's an interesting point there, though, in the fact that people can take away from good stories a whole range of ideas - and yeah, lessons - much of which may never have been consciously in the writers or actors or producers minds. When you tell a good story about people, the audience can draw conclusions from their behavior and events in a manner not unlike the way they do from their own real life experiences.

The skill and success with which a writer communicates their own experience is vastly more important than what they believe about morality.

 

[Cheapjack]

'I, for one, understand you precisely and think that you are mistaken'

Starship, you make me want to weep. You're perceptive enough to see the message, when others can't, but you even black pen the bits where Roddenberry, when he set up the thing,and Bennet and Meyer, when they interpreted it, said it was a message show.

Do you really want me to quote 'The Making..' again? Look at Roddenberry's bits on the 'The Cage' DVD.

'Here was a chance to go to far of planets, with little polka-dotted people if necessary, and talk about love, God, war,sex, all the things that make up the human condition, and maybe the censors would let it all pass, because it all seemed so make believe'.

Are you doing an interview for any future DVD releases? Are you going back to year one and re-defining the whole thing for us?

 

[Sean Aaron]

I love action adventure and hope very this much has those elements.
But based on everything so far, this seems to me to be a rich, special
chocolate Hershey's.

Tasteless and waxy? Gee, sounds great...

 

[trekkerguy]

I love action adventure and hope very this much has those elements.
But based on everything so far, this seems to me to be a rich, special
chocolate Hershey's.

Tasteless and waxy? Gee, sounds great...

It's always funny when people do this.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I love action adventure and hope very this much has those elements.
But based on everything so far, this seems to me to be a rich, special
chocolate Hershey's.

Tasteless and waxy? Gee, sounds great...

It's always funny when people do this.

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

 

[trekkerguy]

Tasteless and waxy? Gee, sounds great...

It's always funny when people do this.

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

 

[Sean Aaron]

It's always funny when people do this.

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

I'm completely stunned...baffled even!

 

[Qonos]

I think that there are one or two here who havn't got a clue what I'm talking about which is sad, with such a show.

I think that there are a few who put it on a par with confessing you still sleep with your teddy-bear, though watching a show just for Flash Gordon space battles is on a par, to me.

I personally don't think YOU have a clue what you're talking about, although at one point you did.

One you are afraid that the producers of the new trek movie are forgetting that some times Star Trek had a message. Some episodes did some didn't as each writer of each individual episode decided whether or not he wanted to do something of deeper meaning in it.

On the first point all I can say is we haven't seen the movie yet, there is no script out there to spoil ourselves with, so we don't know if there is a message or not laced into the tapestry of this movie. If there isn't It's not a big deal since the main focus of this movie is to introduce this new version of trek to the General Audiance and help build the franchise.

I would love for a message to be there, but it's not essential to the story or to my enjoyment of Trek. I think a lot of fans have forgotten that first and foremost Star Trek is entertainment. It's meant to be entertaining the message was laced in there after establishing the entertainment value, and the main goal of this movie is to make an entertaining trek product again.

While Morality and the teaching of it aren't bad there must first be a concensus of what modern morals are. In the sixties morality was pretty well locked down, but now as society has grown, what is the new Morality, what is okay and what is not. Some of the issues we faced in the sixties we don't face now. I know we still have racism, but we are getting better as a people, and after awhile it goes from being a Morality tale to becoming the stone hammer on the altar and gets over preachy. One movie taking a break from that to allow a franchise to re-establish itself is not going to harm the core of Trek. At least in my humble opinion it won't... But then again as I said above maybe there is a message in this movie, we haven't seen the whole damn thing yet, in fact all we've seen is about two minutes of footage.... not really all that much to go on.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's always funny when people do this.

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

I like Hershey's as well.

"I don't like it" and "it sucks" aren't actually the same sentence, but on the Internet they may as well be.

 

[Qonos]

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

I like Hershey's as well.

"I don't like it" and "it sucks" aren't actually the same sentence, but on the Internet they may as well be.

I'm wondering if Sean is a smoker because those are the only people I've ever run into that thought Hershey's tastes Waxy...

 

[trekkerguy]

Choose a brand of chocolate that doesn't suck for your analogy next time!

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

I like Hershey's as well.

"I don't like it" and "it sucks" aren't actually the same sentence, but on the Internet they may as well be.

That's pretty much all I took it as, that he doesn't like it.

And yes, Hershey's is one of the few chocolates I do like.

And Qonos post on Trek/storytelling/morals is fairly close to my thinking.

 

[number6]

Sorry you don't like it, I do so it fits my analogy.

I like Hershey's as well.

"I don't like it" and "it sucks" aren't actually the same sentence, but on the Internet they may as well be.

I'm wondering if Sean is a smoker because those are the only people I've ever run into that thought Hershey's tastes Waxy...

I'm a smoker and I don't think Hershey's tastes waxy. I think Hershey's is actually pretty good, especially their special dark, but I also prefer "real" chocolate!! From Germany or Switzerland!!!

 

[trekkerguy]

I'm a smoker and I don't think Hershey's tastes waxy. I think Hershey's is actually pretty good, especially their special dark, but I also prefer "real" chocolate!! From Germany or Switzerland!!!

I may have to try some of those because very few chocolates are appealing to me.
I have simple tastes.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I think that there are one or two here who havn't got a clue what I'm talking about which is sad, with such a show.

No, I think that the majority of us get what you are trying to say and disagree with your views. It does not mean that we don't have a "clue." We very much do.

It's always easy to dismiss disagreeing views when one lectures from a self-righteous pulpit. However, there is one question that burns in the back on my mind since this thread veered into this one-sided didactic.

The question: If one must seek morality in a television show, such as Star Trek, then what does that say about the person and not the show itself?