The "morality message" in VOY's Demons was about as subtle and nuanced as a pipe wrench to the head when compared to other episodes... like, let's say, TNG's Tin Man.
What would Roddenberry want in XI??
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The "morality message" in VOY's Demons was about as subtle and nuanced as a pipe wrench to the head when compared to other episodes... like, let's say, TNG's Tin Man.
I see a lot of arguing about Star Trek's Message, and whether or not it is simply an action-adventure show, or whether it has some deeper messages about morality.
I think it is obviously doing both. Using an action-adventure story, aliens in makeup etc., to tell good a good story each week.
Many of these stories work because there is an underlying message, or point-of-view within each episode.
They are not all of the morality play variety, but many were, The Doomsday Machine being an obvious message about the dangers of nuclear weapons.
On the other hand, it was, and is, PRIMARILY an adventure show, with Kirk and crew outwitting aliens, androids, Klingons and Romulans, or some other exciting adventure.
The Wrath Of Khan was first and foremost, a battle in space between two very different adversaries, but had the theme of what happens when humanity tries to play god, Trek III dealt with the repercussions of a technology being perverted into a weapon, and both dealt with mortality and ageing.
Also, it was never a "preachy" show, and for the most part, explored the issues via allegory rather than making direct statements.
It IS more cerebral than Star Wars, Flash Gordon or Lost In Space, but in the end it was an action-adventure show with a lot of variety in it's stories and themes.
JJ Abrams sees the inherent optimism built into the promise, and with the crew's efforts to do their best, even against the greatest odds, and that makes the crew very good role models.
The optimism is more of a theme than a message, and the evolved nature of humanity was alluded to more than stated.
I think it is obviously doing both. Using an action-adventure story, aliens in makeup etc., to tell good a good story each week.
Many of these stories work because there is an underlying message, or point-of-view within each episode.
They are not all of the morality play variety, but many were, The Doomsday Machine being an obvious message about the dangers of nuclear weapons.
On the other hand, it was, and is, PRIMARILY an adventure show, with Kirk and crew outwitting aliens, androids, Klingons and Romulans, or some other exciting adventure.
The Wrath Of Khan was first and foremost, a battle in space between two very different adversaries, but had the theme of what happens when humanity tries to play god, Trek III dealt with the repercussions of a technology being perverted into a weapon, and both dealt with mortality and ageing.
Also, it was never a "preachy" show, and for the most part, explored the issues via allegory rather than making direct statements.
It IS more cerebral than Star Wars, Flash Gordon or Lost In Space, but in the end it was an action-adventure show with a lot of variety in it's stories and themes.
JJ Abrams sees the inherent optimism built into the promise, and with the crew's efforts to do their best, even against the greatest odds, and that makes the crew very good role models.
The optimism is more of a theme than a message, and the evolved nature of humanity was alluded to more than stated.
Yeah, because "big bombs are bad" was not a message that had been or was being or is being delivered over and over, virtually every day, in a hundred better and more effective ways.
One line in an episode about "the old atomic bomb" and how this one got away from the owners doesn't give the story any remarkable philosophic or moral depth. If that kind of thing is Trek's claim to moral relevance, it gets a D-.
It was a good Moby Dick riff, though, and Decker was a good character. Good story.
Isn't Tin Man the one Polaris helped write???
:P
BTW Wrath of Kahn's message was "Becareful what you do because in the future it may come back to bite you in the ass" Seeing it was one of the only times Kirk had to deal with the consequences of his actions and look what it cost him ultimately.. One of his Best Friends.
Star Trek is not a church. It's a television show, an action-adventure space opera with occasional forays into hard science-fiction and the morality play. But it is not, nor has it ever been, a religion with an altar to the sacred Roddenberry, who himself is not a god or Landru. He is a man who created an entertaining piece of popular fiction that is far better than some of the other trash out there. Yet, in the end, it is still a popular fiction. Everything ascribed to it -- this supposed sense of morality -- came later after the show was canceled. As did the apotheosis of Roddenberry.
As for morality, the problem with that is that it can become absolute, rigid and inflexible. Fiction should never try to teach morality. Its job is to question our world and try to make sense of it, but never fully providing an answer for how one should live.
Star Trek explores issues, but only in the most superficial of ways and usually uses a sledgehammer to get its point across. It is what it is, and I accept that and still enjoy it.
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I'd be more concerned if they were outwitting him ala Maxwell Smart.
Either would be fine with me. They are heroes from the 60s after all, and there is plenty of overlap in the way all four outwitted villains.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
He's dead Jim...
The more important question is:
Seriously though, why does GR get brought up every time someone doesn't like a(n) episode/movie/series/whatever? Why would you care? Do you honestly need the validation of your opinion, or can you be satisfied that something is just not to your taste and not worry about what even the Great Bird would have thought.
Personally after reading what went on behind the scenes and reading about some of his ideas about an "evolved" humanity, I quite frankly don't have much respect for GR beyond his creation of a show that became something I like (for the most part).
That wasn't the film's "message" - that's a thematic description of the experience of the main character, Kirk. See, when one tries to abstract and elevate the thematic material in a story into an "author's message" that's the kind of thing that so often happens: a good story is reduced to being the "carrier wave" for something that's generally simpleminded.
I mean, "be careful what you do because there will be consequences" - that is supposed to make that story worthwhile and explain why it's remained popular for thirty-some years? Come on. That's as insightful and inspiring a message as "be sure to carry an umbrella when it looks like rain."
Which is the message of Singing in the Rain.
Great movie. Great dancing. Why does everyone overlook the moral, damn it? Isn't that why people watch movies?
actually it was a joke....
I thought the main theme of TWOK was that the desire for revenge can end up turning back on you, like Ahab in Moby Dick.
Hey, what do I know? I think ST is a morality show, and I've only got quotes from about six people who made it to back me up, plus my own thoughts on every episode I have seen!
I thought the message in 'The Doomsday Machine' was quite good for the sixties, Starship (or should I call you Darth?).
Which episode did you write? Did the bad guy win in the end?
Hey, what do I know? I think ST is a morality show, and I've only got quotes from about six people who made it to back me up, plus my own thoughts on every episode I have seen!
I thought the message in 'The Doomsday Machine' was quite good for the sixties, Starship (or should I call you Darth?).
Which episode did you write? Did the bad guy win in the end?
It's entertainment, it means something different to everyone who watches it.
Yes man, Ok.
Star Trek has a message indeed. As a matter of fact it's got a lot of messages.
And you are the morality master, the younglings are all immoral today and anyones opinion that differs from yours hates morality and should put Darth in front of their names.
Let's move on now...
I don't see anyone anywhere suggesting morality is bad or that they hate it...
I don't see anyone anywhere suggesting morality is bad or that they hate it...
That's because you are a logical man who understands what he reads...
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